Hodge is not the answer

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Re: Hodge is not answer

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:48 pm

Not sure what you really find out about players and coaches in a match you were also going to win comfortably.
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Re: Hodge is not answer

Postby gowrie on Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:14 pm

You know, the typo in the thread title is really starting to bother me.
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Re: Hodge is not answer

Postby biffer on Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:58 pm

gowrie wrote:You know, the typo in the thread title is really starting to bother me.


Better?
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Re: Hodge is not answer

Postby royc on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:28 pm

GaryIPA wrote:On the strength of last night he's not the answer


Crichton Gunner wrote:
As I said on another thread, the position is Hodge's unless he makes an almighty c*ck up of things over the next month or maybe two. A decision on the head coach position has to be made soon so that the new guy can start building the squad he wants for next season. If they were wanting someone other than Hodge he'd have been lined up by now, and Petrie wouldn't be making statements about how Hodge is helping with squad development for next season and what a great job he's doing.

Personally I'd be happy with Hodge. We are playing much more attractive rugby under him, and he's done enough to justify a proper crack at the job. You can't hold one game with Zebre against him; he's a young coach and is learning all the time, in the same way Tooney was when he started. I think he deserves his chance, and will be very surprised if he doesn't get it.


Hodge has rather drawn the short straw here ref timing. A coach would normally get a pre-season and at least a term to show what he can do, Hodge was dropped into it in week 5 and a decision will be needed shortly so that the next coach, if not Hodge, has the time to build the squad for next season.

How long should Hodge get? At most, it can only practically be half a season, 14 games, even then, an incoming coach would be up against it for time assessing things and recruiting players. How then should Hodge's brief tenure be judged? The only real criterion can be, how has the team performed under his stewardship?

His results are, if my maths are right,

League - played 7, won 3, lost 4
Cup - played 6, won 5, lost 1
Total: played 13, won 8, lost 5

Even if you deduct Timisoara from the reckoning, he is still ahead of the game, won 6, lost 5. Quite tellingly, the losses have all been between 5 and 14 points, so hardly a big reverse in sight, only the disappointment of that 5-point loss to Zebre.

Given the known weaknesses in the team's present composition, if he was able to get Embra up to mid-table in the league by end-season, between 5th and 8th, that would be a very good result this year and arguably a lot better than merited on paper.

The 14th game is the next one, against Munster, who are 2nd in the league and probably a bridge too far at this stage. In my book, Hodge has done enough to get the gig for a year, there is no point dragging the decision out. I think Crichton Gunner has nailed it.
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Re: Hodge is not the answer

Postby doedin on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:14 pm

It is a bit of a quandary! Hodge inherited a difficult job early in the season with a squad that was Solomons own, some dodgy summer signings and quite quickly had to deal with a dreadful injury run to our prized asset namely our 1st and 2nd choice props. He also inherited an out of date gameplan, a generally unhappy and dwindling crowd base and from what I could see some unhappy players who were performing very poorly. He has also had to manage the squad during the move to Myreside and all that entails. Big job for anyone!

He has done well given the circumstances. I think there is almost unanimity on this site that he has improved our style of play no end and with that he has slowly begun to turn around the results. The results in the euro games have been excellent and have been fully deserved. The players seem happier on the pitch and playing the game they are being asked to do and we have seen more back play moves since he has been in charge than we saw in all of the dreadful Solomons era. Some guys like Hoyland and Brown are looking different players as a result. If he does keep going on the same trajectory then you would have to say he is worth a shot. He deserves it!

There is still a little nagging doubt about if he is experienced enough, for example he has spent almost all his time within Scotland. However perhaps with Townsend stepping up to the Scottish job he could provide some mentoring to him next season?

On balance I would give him a chance, bringing in an overseas coach is always risky as we have found out in the past and perhaps in this instance we should stick to what we know and let him develop the squad how he wants for next season. I am sure he is a lot cheaper that the dosh we poured down the drain on Solomons and Bradley before him!
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Re: Hodge is not the answer

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:53 pm

doedin wrote:
There is still a little nagging doubt about if he is experienced enough, for example he has spent almost all his time within Scotland. However perhaps with Townsend stepping up to the Scottish job he could provide some mentoring to him next season?

On balance I would give him a chance, bringing in an overseas coach is always risky as we have found out in the past and perhaps in this instance we should stick to what we know and let him develop the squad how he wants for next season. I am sure he is a lot cheaper that the dosh we poured down the drain on Solomons and Bradley before him!


It wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to have Toonie keeping an eye out over Hodge actually.

It depends really, if I was Petrie and Dodson I'd cast the net and see if there is any interest but if it's not a big name coach with impressive experience Hodge would probably get the default and then he's given Dalziel and Blair to work with.
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Re: Hodge is not the answer

Postby BigD163 on Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:28 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:It depends really, if I was Petrie and Dodson I'd cast the net and see if there is any interest but if it's not a big name coach with impressive experience Hodge would probably get the default and then he's given Dalziel and Blair to work with.


I think Dalziel would be better served picking up more experience at LS. He's only been involved in pro rugby coaching for a season. He also appears a decent youth coach (did a good job with the 20s), so if we are sending some youngsters to LS then it seems win/win to leave him there for another season or 2.

I am not sure it is best for Blair, Edinburgh or Scotland for him to become the Edinburgh backs coach either. He undoubtedly was a great player but great players do not automatically equal great coaches. He can stay at Glasgow and work under Rennie and the Scotland backs coach who's name escapes me just now (O'Halloran?).

When Townsend became Glasgow coach he had Munro who had been involved with Glasgow for years and Taylor who came as a super 15 winning defence coach.

If Hodge gets the job then Petrie needs, with Hodges buy in obviously, to surround him with some level of experienced coaches and maybe an inexperienced pro coach like Murray was for Glasgow. That could be Dalziel but think there is value in leaving him at LS.
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Re: Hodge is not the answer

Postby germain on Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:06 pm

The deadly run of game that is coming during the 6 Nations will tell us what to think about Hodge.
For recall: Munster (H), Ulster (A), Leinster (A), Cardiff (H), Ospreys (H). Three wins out of that will be hard to achieve, but a real minimum if we target that 7th place.

Bar Hoyland and Weir, he will have all his backs during this period. It's an other story in the forwards but we'll see if Hodge has all the squad behind him, willing to succeed.
Under Solomons, our "B" team consistently failed. We'll see if Hodge has changed that.

This team is not a bad one:

Cosgrove - Cochrane - Berghan?? (Whyte - McInally - McCallum)
McKenzie - Toolis?? (Carmichael) With Bressler soon in the mix.
Mata - Bradbury - Ritchie (Fihaki) if Manu injured.
Kennedy - Tovey (Fowles - Hidalgo-Clyne) if Weir away with Scotland.
Scholes - Dean - Allen - Brown (Bryce) if Helu and Burleigh injured

Edit: I get it wrong. Cardiff is home and not away, just after the irish games. After Cardiff, it's Oz (H). Then Scarlets (A), Connacht (H), Treviso (A), Dragons (H), Glasgow (A).
So we'll receive our two rivals for the 7th place, Carfiff and Connacht. But just winning those two games, and the other home games, won't be enough.
Last edited by germain on Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Hodge is not the answer

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:11 pm

BigD163 wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:It depends really, if I was Petrie and Dodson I'd cast the net and see if there is any interest but if it's not a big name coach with impressive experience Hodge would probably get the default and then he's given Dalziel and Blair to work with.


I think Dalziel would be better served picking up more experience at LS. He's only been involved in pro rugby coaching for a season. He also appears a decent youth coach (did a good job with the 20s), so if we are sending some youngsters to LS then it seems win/win to leave him there for another season or 2.

I am not sure it is best for Blair, Edinburgh or Scotland for him to become the Edinburgh backs coach either. He undoubtedly was a great player but great players do not automatically equal great coaches. He can stay at Glasgow and work under Rennie and the Scotland backs coach who's name escapes me just now (O'Halloran?).

When Townsend became Glasgow coach he had Munro who had been involved with Glasgow for years and Taylor who came as a super 15 winning defence coach.

If Hodge gets the job then Petrie needs, with Hodges buy in obviously, to surround him with some level of experienced coaches and maybe an inexperienced pro coach like Murray was for Glasgow. That could be Dalziel but think there is value in leaving him at LS.


I think Dalziel's year at LS is another year experience and he'll eventually find his way to one of the Pro teams as he's learnt at Melrose, shown his ability with the under20s and now moves to a professional environment at LS so it seems to make sense his next step is Glasgow/Edinburgh. Maybe it'll be in a few years but makes sense when you're putting a coaching team together he's in that discussion.

I am guessing Mike Blair is a good coach because his insight into the game is so good but he may be a Gary Neville. I wonder how much influence he's had with Ali Price and George Horne who are really coming on though?

Murray is an interesting one as it's not been announced who's with Rennie, O'Halloran and Humphries at Glasgow for next year so an experienced guy like him is something to watch.

The problem is - would a highly respected and experienced assistant coach want to move to Hodge's Edinburgh? We're not a big team and Hodge isn't the most respected coach going. In an ideal world you'd two really well respected and proven assistant coaches but perhaps they'd want to be DoR.
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Re: Hodge is not the answer

Postby biffer on Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:14 pm

germain wrote:The deadly run of game that is coming during the 6 Nations will tell us what to think about Hodge.
For recall: Munster (H), Ulster (A), Leicester (A), Ospreys (H), Blues (A). Three wins out of that will be hard to achieve, but a real minimum if we target that 7th place.

Bar Hoyland and Weir, he will have all his backs during this period. It's an other story in the forwards but we'll see if Hodge has all the squad behind him, willing to succeed.
Under Solomons, our "B" team consistently failed. We'll see if Hodge has changed that.

This team is not a bad one:

Cosgrove - Cochrane - Berghan?? (Whyte - McInally - McCallum)
McKenzie - Toolis?? (Carmichael) With Bressler soon in the mix.
Mata - Bradbury - Ritchie (Fihaki) if Manu injured.
Kennedy - Tovey (Fowles - Hidalgo-Clyne) if Weir away with Scotland.
Scholes - Dean - Allen - Brown (Bryce) if Helu and Burleigh injured
Kinghorn


Don't think we'll have Berghan given Nel's injury.
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Re: Hodge is not the answer

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:17 pm

germain wrote:The deadly run of game that is coming during the 6 Nations will tell us what to think about Hodge.
For recall: Munster (H), Ulster (A), Leicester (A), Ospreys (H), Blues (A). Three wins out of that will be hard to achieve, but a real minimum if we target that 7th place.

Bar Hoyland and Weir, he will have all his backs during this period. It's an other story in the forwards but we'll see if Hodge has all the squad behind him, willing to succeed.
Under Solomons, our "B" team consistently failed. We'll see if Hodge has changed that.

This team is not a bad one:
Cosgrove - Cochrane - Berghan?? (Whyte - McInally - McCallum)
McKenzie - Toolis?? (Carmichael)
Bradbury - Manu?? - Ritchie (Fihaki)
Kennedy - Tovey (Fowles - Hidalgo-Clyne)
Allen - Burleigh - Dean - Brown (Helu)
Kinghorn


I think Hoyland will be released with one of the second rows if not both, Vern Cotter suggested Hardie would play for us vs Munster as his recovery is going well and I wouldn't be surprised to see du Preez released too as back row stocks are very healthy in Scotland at the minute.

I'd really like to see more of Mata in these games and Bresler was playing for Melrose so he should be seeing some time off the bench - our second row options are look great!

For me the minimum from the 6 games is 15 points. If Hodge can get at least 15 points from 5 of the top 6 teams and Cardiff then he'd be my pick for the job. If he can't get Edinburgh to compete with the best then he's not our man.
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Re: Hodge is not the answer

Postby germain on Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:18 pm

biffer wrote:
germain wrote:The deadly run of game that is coming during the 6 Nations will tell us what to think about Hodge.
For recall: Munster (H), Ulster (A), Leicester (A), Ospreys (H), Blues (A). Three wins out of that will be hard to achieve, but a real minimum if we target that 7th place.

Bar Hoyland and Weir, he will have all his backs during this period. It's an other story in the forwards but we'll see if Hodge has all the squad behind him, willing to succeed.
Under Solomons, our "B" team consistently failed. We'll see if Hodge has changed that.

This team is not a bad one:

Cosgrove - Cochrane - Berghan?? (Whyte - McInally - McCallum)
McKenzie - Toolis?? (Carmichael) With Bressler soon in the mix.
Mata - Bradbury - Ritchie (Fihaki) if Manu injured.
Kennedy - Tovey (Fowles - Hidalgo-Clyne) if Weir away with Scotland.
Scholes - Dean - Allen - Brown (Bryce) if Helu and Burleigh injured
Kinghorn


Don't think we'll have Berghan given Nel's injury.


So I hope Beavon is now up to the physicality of the pro game 8)
Honestly, I hope that Fagerson and Welsh will be Cotter's first choice, but we'll see.
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Re: Hodge is not the answer

Postby germain on Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:24 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote: I wouldn't be surprised to see du Preez released too as back row stocks are very healthy in Scotland at the minute.

For me the minimum from the 6 games is 15 points. If Hodge can get at least 15 points from 5 of the top 6 teams and Cardiff then he'd be my pick for the job. If he can't get Edinburgh to compete with the best then he's not our man.


It would be great for Du Preez, as I think he has a great influence on all the squad.
From those 5 games, 12 points (3*4) would be great for me. 16 if you count the sixth game, one week after the end of the six nations, Connacht (H).
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Re: Hodge is not the answer

Postby BigD163 on Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:37 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:The problem is - would a highly respected and experienced assistant coach want to move to Hodge's Edinburgh? We're not a big team and Hodge isn't the most respected coach going. In an ideal world you'd two really well respected and proven assistant coaches but perhaps they'd want to be DoR.


A very valid point, Hodge may not to bin Stevie Scott either (unless I have missed something). So the HC may be the only position that is different to the start of last season. I assume he may bring someone else in though.
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Re: Hodge is not the answer

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:51 pm

BigD163 wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:The problem is - would a highly respected and experienced assistant coach want to move to Hodge's Edinburgh? We're not a big team and Hodge isn't the most respected coach going. In an ideal world you'd two really well respected and proven assistant coaches but perhaps they'd want to be DoR.


A very valid point, Hodge may not to bin Stevie Scott either (unless I have missed something). So the HC may be the only position that is different to the start of last season. I assume he may bring someone else in though.


I presume Scott is forwards coach next year and in my vision Blair is backs coach with Dalziel defence coach.
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