Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby gowrie on Wed May 17, 2017 4:35 pm

EWT spoons wrote:I think it was mentioned in this thread earlier but VDM despite being capped at u20 is not tied to South Africa due to the opponents. Think it works that both teams need to set their u20 team as their 2nd teams, which means they are tied. Or something along those lines.

Either way in 3 years he could be eligible for Scotland, but given he's on a 2 year deal and needs to play for Edinburgh first this isn't a massive thing, just thought i would mention it.


I think you're right, but it's not as simple as that.

World Rugby changed the rules, so that at one point if you went to the JWC, and the U20 was the designated second side, you were tied regardless of who you played. Now I think this change only happened in 2015 (and captured Brandon Thomson) but a quick google didn't give me anything so I don't really now.

And now of course you're not allowed to designated U20s as second sides so that's another rule change to remember.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby biffer on Wed May 17, 2017 4:38 pm

gowrie wrote:
EWT spoons wrote:I think it was mentioned in this thread earlier but VDM despite being capped at u20 is not tied to South Africa due to the opponents. Think it works that both teams need to set their u20 team as their 2nd teams, which means they are tied. Or something along those lines.

Either way in 3 years he could be eligible for Scotland, but given he's on a 2 year deal and needs to play for Edinburgh first this isn't a massive thing, just thought i would mention it.


I think you're right, but it's not as simple as that.

World Rugby changed the rules, so that at one point if you went to the JWC, and the U20 was the designated second side, you were tied regardless of who you played. Now I think this change only happened in 2015 (and captured Brandon Thomson) but a quick google didn't give me anything so I don't really now.

And now of course you're not allowed to designated U20s as second sides so that's another rule change to remember.


I'm in agreement with Gary on this.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby dolf_lundgren on Wed May 17, 2017 4:54 pm

Berghan is a good re-signing. He really offers little other than holding he scrum steady, having said that, that Is No mean feat. So happy to have him, I hope he is third choice by midway through next season though.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby EWT spoons on Wed May 17, 2017 5:12 pm

gowrie wrote:
EWT spoons wrote:I think it was mentioned in this thread earlier but VDM despite being capped at u20 is not tied to South Africa due to the opponents. Think it works that both teams need to set their u20 team as their 2nd teams, which means they are tied. Or something along those lines.

Either way in 3 years he could be eligible for Scotland, but given he's on a 2 year deal and needs to play for Edinburgh first this isn't a massive thing, just thought i would mention it.


I think you're right, but it's not as simple as that.

World Rugby changed the rules, so that at one point if you went to the JWC, and the U20 was the designated second side, you were tied regardless of who you played. Now I think this change only happened in 2015 (and captured Brandon Thomson) but a quick google didn't give me anything so I don't really now.

And now of course you're not allowed to designated U20s as second sides so that's another rule change to remember.


I was going based on this chat:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/152 ... re/?ref=ar

I can't see the whole article because I'm not paying for a subscription but the key point is in the free bit:

The new residency rules will not take effect before the start of next year – anybody who has not qualified under the current three-year regulation by December 31, 2020 will have to wait five years to change country – and though van der Merwe has played for South Africa Under-20s, neither of his two caps were in matches that would have tied him to the country.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby New Gunner on Wed May 17, 2017 5:42 pm

Recap on ins / outs (assuming Bresler staying):

Leaving:

Alex Northam (W, NSQ)
Jack Cosgrove (LH)
Kyle Whyte (TH)
Michael Allen (C, NSQ)
Nasi Manu (BR, NSQ)
Nick Beavon (TH)
Sasa Tofilau (C, NSQ)
Will Helu (C, NSQ)

8 total, 4 backs 4 forwards, 5 NSQ, 2 could be considered 'academy graduate' types, 1 international (not Scotland).

Joining:

Ally Miller (BR)
Callum Hunter-Hill (L)
Darcy Graham (FB / W)
Duhan van der Merwe (W, NSQ)
Hugh Fraser (SH)
Mark Bennett (C)
Tom Galbraith (C, FB, SO)

7 total, 5 backs 2 forwards, 1 NSQ, 5 are academy graduates, 1 international (Scotland). Haven't included Murray McCallum as he's been around the team for most of the season, even though only on an academy deal (but signed pro for next season).

A clear pattern - signing young SQ U20s, mainly backs - very little tinkering with the forwards, Cockers clearly believes it isn't the raw material that's the problem there.

Squad of 43, tend to agree we will probably end up with 45, maybe 46. The main salaries we've freed up are Manu, Helu and Allen. To balance that, we've got Bennett and van der Merwe, plus I suspect large uplifts for Watson, Nel and a few others. So any further signings will underline increased investment in the team by the SRU. Assuming Robbie Freuan is one (he'll be in a big wedge) then I'm not sure there will be much left in the kitty - although maybe Cockers has pushed them to commit to more. We need a young / academy loosehead, and either a young stand-off or back three, depending whether RC sees Kinghorn as covering / converting to 10. Interesting that BK was at 10 for the U20s with Josh Henderson at 15 - an experiment?
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby germain on Wed May 17, 2017 7:54 pm

Fair summary.
One loosehead, Fruean and Maybe a full-back and I'll be happy with our squad (Bresler as a bonus).
It's good to see that the coaching staff is settled and that the squad is now almost built (and well built for the moment).
Optimism is already back for next year !
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby Crichton Gunner on Wed May 17, 2017 9:03 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:Berghan is a good re-signing. He really offers little other than holding he scrum steady, having said that, that Is No mean feat. So happy to have him, I hope he is third choice by midway through next season though.

Agree with that. Outside of the scrum he's been a bit of a liability imo. He gives away too many penalties and is defensively suspect, and I wouldn't have been too bothered if he'd moved on. Still, he's a useful scrummager and can hopefully improve the other aspects of his game, so am happy enough with him staying.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Wed May 17, 2017 10:40 pm

germain wrote:Hunter-Hill's signing makes me doubt about Bresler's resigning. We've got already five second-rowers, and Mata can play there too. Is a sixth player necessary ?

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Also ... Kinghorn played 10 for the under20s today with Henderson 15 ...


Do you know the make-up of the team?


Nope but from the two minute highlights you can see him wearing 10: https://twitter.com/WelshRugbyUnion/sta ... 2241754112 - abysmal defending for their tries from him, he needs to improve that and ASAP.

A WRU match report mentioned he was 10 and Henderson 15. Only other players they mentioned was Smith the hooker and Appelson scoring the try at the end.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby Tichtheid on Thu May 18, 2017 7:46 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Nope but from the two minute highlights you can see him wearing 10: https://twitter.com/WelshRugbyUnion/sta ... 2241754112 - abysmal defending for their tries from him, he needs to improve that and ASAP.

A WRU match report mentioned he was 10 and Henderson 15. Only other players they mentioned was Smith the hooker and Appelson scoring the try at the end.



Ah, I had to edit this as I only skimmed what you'd said and I had repeated it :D

the intercept try Kinghorn scored kind of sums him up, his defence is poor but he is a great attacking weapon, luckily the faults are far easier to cure by coaching, it's not so easy to teach an attacking instinct.

That Appelson try was a peach, if you'll pardon the fruit-based word play.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby BigD163 on Thu May 18, 2017 11:54 am

biffer wrote:Berghan re-signed for two years.


I hope it reflects the fact he will be low down the pecking order rather than the fact he is an international.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Thu May 18, 2017 9:11 pm

Tichtheid wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Nope but from the two minute highlights you can see him wearing 10: https://twitter.com/WelshRugbyUnion/sta ... 2241754112 - abysmal defending for their tries from him, he needs to improve that and ASAP.

A WRU match report mentioned he was 10 and Henderson 15. Only other players they mentioned was Smith the hooker and Appelson scoring the try at the end.



Ah, I had to edit this as I only skimmed what you'd said and I had repeated it :D

the intercept try Kinghorn scored kind of sums him up, his defence is poor but he is a great attacking weapon, luckily the faults are far easier to cure by coaching, it's not so easy to teach an attacking instinct.

That Appelson try was a peach, if you'll pardon the fruit-based word play.


No and it's not as if Kinghorn is scared to put his body in his technique and power are all wrong and I really think that is down to poor coaching and bad strength and conditioning work.

Of course he could be a Cipriani.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sat May 20, 2017 10:53 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39983505

Interesting interview with Turner:

On why not playing young players and expecting them develop is complete nonsense:

As a rugby player, you can train all you like, I've got all the systems down, but it's doing it on the day that's important, and you only get that from playing. You'll be more developed the more you play.


And this in his meeting with Cockers:

"A couple of times in the chat he was saying I'm a local boy from Edinburgh, still youngish, and he liked me because I'm not the biggest hooker in Scottish rugby, but I'm still here and I can compete.

"He said, 'You must be quite good, if you're small'. It was a positive meeting.

"A change is good, and to be told that he really likes how I play boosted my confidence straight away."


Would like to hear what Cockers said to some of the others...
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby germain on Sat May 20, 2017 2:39 pm

Duhan on the bench for Montpellier this afternoon.
Carmichael was on the bench too for Force's correction by Higlanders.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby dunna on Sun May 21, 2017 5:42 pm

germain wrote:Duhan on the bench for Montpellier this afternoon.
Carmichael was on the bench too for Force's correction by Higlanders.


I watched a bit of the Top14 yesterday. Really like what I saw of Duhan. Solid in defence, strong physical runner. He was unlucky with the bounce of a ball, but showed his pace almost grabbing a try.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby biffer on Sun May 21, 2017 7:37 pm

dunna wrote:
germain wrote:Duhan on the bench for Montpellier this afternoon.
Carmichael was on the bench too for Force's correction by Higlanders.


I watched a bit of the Top14 yesterday. Really like what I saw of Duhan. Solid in defence, strong physical runner. He was unlucky with the bounce of a ball, but showed his pace almost grabbing a try.


Same here. Thought he looked powerful.
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