Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

[Rico]

Robbie Fruean linked to us in the Rugby Paper.

Had his injury troubles, but if we can get him, it's an incredibly good signing for us.

Would be fantastic if true. Just hope he works out better than our last big name Kiwi signing in terms of injuries/game time !

[Friday Knight Lights]

Minor point - Carmichael is 21 about to turn 22 in the next fortnight, But the point remains, nobody ever really knows how good a player is until they see them play regardless of the position. We have seen Carmichael play and play well against one of the very best club teams in the world, that really does beg the question why he didn't play more for Edinburgh who if we're honest have been terrible for a while now. I don't understand the mitigating factors on this one because other than Toolis it's very hard to say McKenzie and Gilchrist deserve to be selected every week.

my bad on the age, but my points still stand. Young for a lock.

Your point about not knowing how good a player is until you see them play is valid up to a point. Coaches see far more than you, probably have footage from club games as well as past stuff from U20s - and can see how that has improved or not in training. Far more info than a fan has.

I think you way over egg his performance yesterday. Playing very well means a lot more than he did. Again perhaps that would come with more opportunities, but opportunities need to be grasped and demand selection. Doing Ok isn't enough.
I think there is time for Carmichael, but he does need to either or both put on some more muscle and find some more dynamism around the park. I do not see the case to have played him loads more so far, except he might be better than someone else if he gets a chance. That is just not how teams should ever be selected.

I have my doubts the Edinburgh coaching team are trawling through the Melrose tapes on a weekly basis and I don't imagine training is at much intensity because matches certainly aren't.

I disagree, he showed up well against the Chiefs, this isn't the Pro12 - the Chiefs would put 70+ points on us if we're lucky. They are substantially better than anyone we'll play this year. If he had shown up nicely against the Rebels in a narrow defeat point taken, but the Chiefs are top 5 club teams in the world.

It is absolutely the way teams are selected! Players are given a chance to find out if they are good enough or the incumbent is injured. There's no reason to have kept playing underperforming players if we have options in the squad, none at all. When Weir doesn't play well Tovey gets in the squad for example because he might be better. The issue we have is most of our options are terrible, Carmichael showed he isn't.

[Friday Knight Lights]

Robbie Fruean linked to us in the Rugby Paper.

Had his injury troubles, but if we can get him, it's an incredibly good signing for us.

Would be fantastic if true. Just hope he works out better than our last big name Kiwi signing in terms of injuries/game time !

Problem is the last three years he has been injured all the time, it's a risk and probably worth taking but would require a lot of luck.

On backs for next year I was reading the Offside Line this morning and this came up:

Ayr stand-off Frazier Climo grabbed the lion’s share of plaudits in last weekend’s BT Premiership play-off Grand Final, but his opposite number delivered an equally impressive performance. The South African ‘project player’ – who is a stage three member of the BT Sport Scottish Rugby Academy – has grown in stature over the course of his second season in Scotland, and has proven to be a stalwart in an ever-changing Melrose backline. In last weekend’s encounter, the stand-off picked apart Ayr’s back-three with a masterful display of line kicking. Two examples spring to mind: a wonderful diagonal into the corner midway through the first half, which flustered opposition full-back Grant Anderson into fluffing his lines and Baggott was able to open his team’s account with a penalty a few moments later; then a 60 yard torpedo which bounced into touch just a few feet short of Ayr’s try line with ten minutes to go, which set up that gripping finale. The Melrose playmaker will be keen to demonstrate his full kicking range once again on Murrayfield’s much wider pitch.

Maybe Baggott will work out as an option?

[joe soap]

I disagree, he showed up well against the Chiefs,

He was ok, enough to get another start certainly, but lets not get carried away. I think you are seeing what you want to see.

[joe soap]

It is absolutely the way teams are selected! Players are given a chance to find out if they are good enough or the incumbent is injured. There's no reason to have kept playing underperforming players if we have options in the squad, none at all. When Weir doesn't play well Tovey gets in the squad for example because he might be better. The issue we have is most of our options are terrible, Carmichael showed he isn't.

it absolutely isn't how teams players are selected. Some players at all clubs get signed and never get near the first team, including academy players. Most get a bench spot initially, more if they merit it or there are a flood of injuries, or a prodigious talent. Carmichael does not see to be a prodigy just yet, we did not have an injury total crisis at lock.
we did have a crisis at prop and had 2 novices playing there - just perhpaps another one in the front 5 was a step too far this season.
And as I think we agree, he is still a bit underpowered for a lock; 2 novice props and an underpowered kid at lock isn't the way to IMHO.

I know some also wonder if part of Gilchrist's issues are as much to do with being overplayed as a kid as with later injuries - and he was a big lad.

[Wottie]

Robbie Fruean linked to us in the Rugby Paper.

Had his injury troubles, but if we can get him, it's an incredibly good signing for us.

He certainly has had a huge impact on the Challenge Cup Semi when he came on this afternoon. Would certainly give us something we are missing in top level Super Rugby experience, a big wing option and cover at 13 in short term while Bennett is out. Too good to be true!

[gowrie]

Robbie Fruean linked to us in the Rugby Paper.

Had his injury troubles, but if we can get him, it's an incredibly good signing for us.

He certainly has had a huge impact on the Challenge Cup Semi when he came on this afternoon. Would certainly give us something we are missing in top level Super Rugby experience, a big wing option and cover at 13 in short term while Bennett is out. Too good to be true!

I think Fruean's more of a centre who can cover wing, if (big if) he does come here, we're more likely to see him at 12 than on the wing. Fruean/Bennett in the centres and all of a sudden our backline starts to look decent.

[Wottie]

I think Fruean's more of a centre who can cover wing, if (big if) he does come here, we're more likely to see him at 12 than on the wing. Fruean/Bennett in the centres and all of a sudden our backline starts to look decent.

He is, played at 13 most of his time with the Crusaders. Don't recall ever seeing him inside of 13 but he sure looks physically equipped to do so. My point was that Bennett when fit should always be our no. 1 option at 13 and he would cover there as well as giving us a big physical wing option (which we don't have at present). Will watch developments on this rumour with great interest.

[Friday Knight Lights]

It is absolutely the way teams are selected! Players are given a chance to find out if they are good enough or the incumbent is injured. There's no reason to have kept playing underperforming players if we have options in the squad, none at all. When Weir doesn't play well Tovey gets in the squad for example because he might be better. The issue we have is most of our options are terrible, Carmichael showed he isn't.

it absolutely isn't how teams players are selected. Some players at all clubs get signed and never get near the first team, including academy players. Most get a bench spot initially, more if they merit it or there are a flood of injuries, or a prodigious talent. Carmichael does not see to be a prodigy just yet, we did not have an injury total crisis at lock.
we did have a crisis at prop and had 2 novices playing there - just perhpaps another one in the front 5 was a step too far this season.
And as I think we agree, he is still a bit underpowered for a lock; 2 novice props and an underpowered kid at lock isn't the way to IMHO.

I know some also wonder if part of Gilchrist's issues are as much to do with being overplayed as a kid as with later injuries - and he was a big lad.

It's not like we're good though, we lose every game. I can accept the don't change the team shtick if we're winning and playing well consistently but we are doing the opposite. It's clear as day that Solly's refusal to play too many inexperienced players for sake of guys who have plenty experience but, if we're being honest, were jamesmatthew is costing us now. And we're falling into the trap again - 'we can't possibly play Carmichael with McCallum because both are young' . Well, McCallum has been better at 3 than Berghan/Bryce/Beavon and it helped us, McCallum wasn't a 'prodigy' either - there were far more fancied players in that under 20 side. Gilchrist and McKenzie are either underperforming or just not good enough, what is the issue with starting a young guy in their place? How much worse could Carmichael do than those two?

I also don't buy the underpowered argument - the same could be said of a great many established guys we continue to give a game week in week out. I am glad that Cockers said the young guys are going to be given a lot of game time because the old guys can't get it done. I really don't understand the argument the old guys are performing at the level they should be.

[joe soap]

I also don't buy the underpowered argument -

so why did you say he needed to beef up a bit?

[joe soap]

And we're falling into the trap again - 'we can't possibly play Carmichael with McCallum because both are young' . Well, McCallum has been better at 3 than Berghan/Bryce/Beavon and it helped us, McCallum wasn't a 'prodigy' either - there were far more fancied players in that under 20 side. Gilchrist and McKenzie are either underperforming or just not good enough, what is the issue with starting a young guy in their place? How much worse could Carmichael do than those two?
.

where to start? Carmichael would have been packing down behind Cosgrove much of the time. But the issue is how many youngsters can you sensibly lay in a front 5. You may think it does not matter, few coaches will agree with you.

McCallum has been very good (incidentally if you saw or recall him playing for e U20s he was very good indeed - at loose head!)- he got his chance because of injury to both Nel and Bryce, and Bergan for a bit other there was no other better alternative, otherwise he would still be bench warming at best. He deserved to start above the likes of Beavon for example quite clearly in everyone's opinion. The key thing is he was next in line, he wasn't just "given a chance". Players are not "given a chance" - they earn the right to get a chance, or are very very lucky with injuries to others. They earn that right in club matches, in training and in general attitude.

I'm not saying he should not have had a few starts, I am trying patiently to explain why perhaps he didn't get them. Just sometimes even Edinburgh coaches make reasonable calls.

[The Feral Goat]

Think the way games are played in super rugby you get away with being more mobile and a little less bulked up than you do in Pro12/AP/T14. Thought Carmichael played pretty well for a first start in a new environment, he was certainly more visible 2nd half when it looked like his fitness may have been a bit better than some of his team mates. Hopefully he gets some more game time in Oz and he come back to ER better for the experience.

from PR
Wessels praised second row debutant Lewis Carmichael, for ‘not taking a backwards step’ against Brodie Retallick in his first outing, though their injury-depleted lineout suffered in Perth.

[royc]

Bennett is out for 9-12 months, which means he is certainly going to miss the first half of the season and may not be back until March/April, so could miss the whole season. So we are back at square one, looking for a talented outside centre for the season. I would think the interest in Fruean would be as a direct replacement for MB at 13, rather than as an auxiliary winger or 12. If we get him and he stays injury-free, he could be a very good signing and add some cutting-edge in midfield. Here's hoping the rumour mill is accurate.

[joe soap]

Bennett is out for 9-12 months, which means he is certainly going to miss the first half of the season and may not be back until March/April, so could miss the whole season.

I believe its he same knee he did last time, so not good at all, he may or may not be the same player again. So you are right that Edinburgh should be looking to find another option for 13 for at least a season. Of course having both as options is the best of all worlds, the ideal world.

[dolf_lundgren]

Fruaen was lined up to go to Glasgow before his heart op, so certainly could be something in it. He was going to be expensive then and I don't think he will have dropped in value.

An excellent signing if true, agree he is more of a centre than a winger, it would be nice to have to worry about squeezing a player of that quality in on the wing, but I think the closer we can get Tim to the ball the better, I'd play him at scrum half!