Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby biffer on Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:37 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38385909

Interesting but worrying, particularly because of this quote

Getting up for this game isn't going to be difficult and I think that's potentially where we were lacking in both those games against Stade.


Struggling to get up mentally for a double header against one of the biggest teams in Europe? A team that were French champions two years ago? Players like Genia and Steyn? Who the LawrenceBryce hell do you need to be playing to get up for a game?
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby robdinsdale on Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:18 am

biffer wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38385909

Interesting but worrying, particularly because of this quote

Getting up for this game isn't going to be difficult and I think that's potentially where we were lacking in both those games against Stade.


Struggling to get up mentally for a double header against one of the biggest teams in Europe? A team that were French champions two years ago? Players like Genia and Steyn? Who the LawrenceBryce hell do you need to be playing to get up for a game?


Well, it was the group stages of the mickey mouse Euro cup.

But you're right, that doesn't sound like the mentality is where it should be. I think we are playing with more belief in our back play now and that has resulted in more positivity and tries, but on the flip side we're not always getting the basics right or the defensive intensity.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:31 am

I don't think Edinburgh will be the only team that has troubles switching on for the Challenge Cup pools. Edinburgh have played well in their 'big games' under Hodge to be fair. However, they'd do well remember that you only get big games and more of them if you win regularly.

If mentality is a problem get in a coach to help. But I hope the move to Myreside helps fans and players engage and feed off that energy.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby biffer on Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:16 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:I don't think Edinburgh will be the only team that has troubles switching on for the Challenge Cup pools. Edinburgh have played well in their 'big games' under Hodge to be fair. However, they'd do well remember that you only get big games and more of them if you win regularly.

If mentality is a problem get in a coach to help. But I hope the move to Myreside helps fans and players engage and feed off that energy.


Really? the good performance against Ulster I'll grant you, but it's been very patchy within games for the rest of the time. Putting 20 or 30 minutes together hasn't been a problem for Edinburgh recently, or under Solomons, or even under Bradley. It's my main problem with the team for the last seven or eight years, regardless of what style we were playing - and it seems from the evidence so far that it's the same with Hodge in charge.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby biffer on Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:58 pm

disco wrote:Here's the latest squad Depth Chart as we head towards the midpoint of the season:

http://wp.me/p68WtH-4rm


Disagree with a couple of things tbh. McCallum is NOT 5th choice at TH, given he's been playing ahead of Beavon and for most people would be ahead of Bryce as well. I think Bradbury is first choice at 6 now as well. As for scrum half, anyone's guess tbh. I think most of us would put Bresler as first choice at lock.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby The Feral Goat on Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:02 pm

Sort of follows on from what Manu said about the mental prep side of things, pretty poor really. It is one thing to switch off in the last 10-15mins when a game is won, to not switch on at all because it is a perceived lesser team is unacceptable these guys are supposed to be professionals.

Some of them are (or should be) playing for contracts, is it that our talent pool is so small they are not worried about not being offered a renewal, especially if some of better ones get offers from else where and move on?
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby biffer on Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:39 pm

I think part of it comes from a substantial part of the squad having two coaching staffs on one site - Edinburgh and Scotland. If one set of coaches is giving you a rough time you can speak to the other for reassurance. It's another reason for us to get out of Murrayfield.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:06 pm

biffer wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:I don't think Edinburgh will be the only team that has troubles switching on for the Challenge Cup pools. Edinburgh have played well in their 'big games' under Hodge to be fair. However, they'd do well remember that you only get big games and more of them if you win regularly.

If mentality is a problem get in a coach to help. But I hope the move to Myreside helps fans and players engage and feed off that energy.


Really? the good performance against Ulster I'll grant you, but it's been very patchy within games for the rest of the time. Putting 20 or 30 minutes together hasn't been a problem for Edinburgh recently, or under Solomons, or even under Bradley. It's my main problem with the team for the last seven or eight years, regardless of what style we were playing - and it seems from the evidence so far that it's the same with Hodge in charge.


Harlequins too. I'd also say Treviso was a 'big game' as it was Hodge's first game in charge. Maybe Stade is a big game if Harlequins is though and they were shocking the first half then.

I don't think vs Dragons and Ospreys in Wales is a 'big game' for us and the travel seemed like a nightmare, very poorly done and unprofessional in itself. Zebre caught us cold on the crest of a wave and was very poor but again Zebre isn't a big game imo.

Consistency is an issue and it's evident that has to do with the mental side of the game. Something the SRU would do well to address, it seems they do it with the academy players so they should do it with Edinburgh too.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:09 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:Sort of follows on from what Manu said about the mental prep side of things, pretty poor really. It is one thing to switch off in the last 10-15mins when a game is won, to not switch on at all because it is a perceived lesser team is unacceptable these guys are supposed to be professionals.

Some of them are (or should be) playing for contracts, is it that our talent pool is so small they are not worried about not being offered a renewal, especially if some of better ones get offers from else where and move on?


Playing for contracts is a very bad mentality to have. I'm not sure if anyone can be accused of it either but we'll see if anyone's performance suspiciously raises and their contract is up I guess.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby biffer on Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:11 pm

If a game against team in the top three of the league, the best in Wales for the last five years, isn't a big game then we have a very small pool of big games. Also, why is Quins a big game in the Challenge Cup and Stade Francais isn't?

Quins game performance was patchy - good first half but nearly managed to blow it in the second from a commanding lead.

Good teams have the mentality that every game is a big game. For a pro athlete to have any other attitude is damn poor.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:24 pm

biffer wrote:If a game against team in the top three of the league, the best in Wales for the last five years, isn't a big game then we have a very small pool of big games. Also, why is Quins a big game in the Challenge Cup and Stade Francais isn't?

Quins game performance was patchy - good first half but nearly managed to blow it in the second from a commanding lead.

Good teams have the mentality that every game is a big game. For a pro athlete to have any other attitude is damn poor.


Yeah, I realised there maybe a flaw with my Quins Stade logic, I just felt at the time the Quins game was a big game because it was the first big test for Hodge. Also you hear more about Quins than you do Stade I guess.

I don't buy teams do value each game as a big game. You always want to win but some you want to win more than others and I don't think Edinburgh ever don't want to win a game. Something needs to chance in regards to attitude as players coming out and saying it's an issue means is wrong.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby The Feral Goat on Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:40 pm

Total agree Biffer.

Over the last few seasons we are a bottom 4 team so surely the players should treat almost every game as a big game and certainly every home match they should be going out to win.

We have started the last couple of seasons with players and management saying top 6 minimum is a target and with the squad we have we should be pushing top 4 and yet we get nowhere near that. Most agree our squad, on paper, is better then where we end up each season so there must be a reason we continually fall short. To me that has to be in part the attitude of the players. Hodge sent them out to play SF first week at pace and yet they were wandering up to lineouts etc no urgency until after HT what fell out their heads walking out the tunnel first half?

Against Zebre they looked like they thought they just had to turn up to win and for a short while we almost did, the frustrating thing was we played for only a few minutes and got ourselves in a match winning position then switched off again looking like they had won it with little effort and promptly lost the match. Had we gone out with the right attitude like we see against Glasgow most years or v Ulster this year we would have won comfortably. Why do we need half time bollockings to start playing v SF two weeks in a row, Why did the coaches not bollock them pre-match the second time saying a repeat of previous week is unacceptable? The Challenge cup is a possible route to the Champions cup this season and however much it is viewed as the diddy cup the final is also in Edinburgh which should be additional motivation.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby doedin on Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:54 am

The Feral Goat wrote:Total agree Biffer.

Over the last few seasons we are a bottom 4 team so surely the players should treat almost every game as a big game and certainly every home match they should be going out to win.

We have started the last couple of seasons with players and management saying top 6 minimum is a target and with the squad we have we should be pushing top 4 and yet we get nowhere near that. Most agree our squad, on paper, is better then where we end up each season so there must be a reason we continually fall short. To me that has to be in part the attitude of the players. Hodge sent them out to play SF first week at pace and yet they were wandering up to lineouts etc no urgency until after HT what fell out their heads walking out the tunnel first half?

Against Zebre they looked like they thought they just had to turn up to win and for a short while we almost did, the frustrating thing was we played for only a few minutes and got ourselves in a match winning position then switched off again looking like they had won it with little effort and promptly lost the match. Had we gone out with the right attitude like we see against Glasgow most years or v Ulster this year we would have won comfortably. Why do we need half time bollockings to start playing v SF two weeks in a row, Why did the coaches not bollock them pre-match the second time saying a repeat of previous week is unacceptable? The Challenge cup is a possible route to the Champions cup this season and however much it is viewed as the diddy cup the final is also in Edinburgh which should be additional motivation.


I think you hit the nail on the head when you say ‘with the squad we have we should be pushing top 4’. The reality is we have never got near the top 4 with this squad and until they do something different ie better, will never be a top 4 squad! For the last few years they have been and have continued to look like a bottom 4 squad and that is what they are! Any claims to the contrary is just wishful thinking.

The problem is I think that the squad also think they are better than they are! This continual bullshit of ‘we are aiming for a top 4 or top 6 finish this season’ is becoming quite boring and I am not sure anyone either squad or supporters actually believe it now. Until they deliver on the pitch against the likes of Zebra at home then the squad will remain a bottom 4 squad. I would honestly prefer them to shut up about ambitions for the season etc and tell us how they are going to win the next game and for them to be focused upon performance for 80 mins and delivering the points! Do it first then shout about it!
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby dolf_lundgren on Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:48 am

Whilst I agree they will get asked the question and have to give an answer, it is a no win, if they say they think they will struggle to get ahead of the Italians then they will get slaughtered too. Saying " we are hoping to be a little less SteveWalsh that last year" is probably honest but wont seell many tickets!

I disagree on the squad strength, if you look at the top 4 and even top 6 then they are much stronger. On paper we should be competitive but in reality we have too many underperforming. Bryce (possibly both of them) is the obviousl one, Rasolea has played a lot of soup rugby but cant get past a guy who has come from Kirkcaldy and a youngster who is still learning the position. Manu, mainly through injury but has not done anything like what was expected. SHC, dont need to go into that, Gilchrist too. So what should have been big players for us have not delivered.

Add to that we have been unlukcy with injuries (Weir, all the props, Bresler) then that is why we are where we are. I agree all the talking in the world isnt going to sort it. The issue of mindset seems to be coming up again though which is a real worry. When Glasgow won the league they had a bit of a slump at the start of the next season. A lot of it wasa down to losing Kellock, Hall and for a while Lamont, they missed the leaders who drove them forward. I dont think we have many in that mould at the best of times, but the like sof Roddy Grant will be a miss. Interestingly the one at Glasgow who the players missed was Dougie Hall, not for his playing but he never let standards drop, thats the type of guy we need.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:14 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:
I disagree on the squad strength, if you look at the top 4 and even top 6 then they are much stronger. On paper we should be competitive but in reality we have too many underperforming. Bryce (possibly both of them) is the obviousl one, Rasolea has played a lot of soup rugby but cant get past a guy who has come from Kirkcaldy and a youngster who is still learning the position. Manu, mainly through injury but has not done anything like what was expected. SHC, dont need to go into that, Gilchrist too. So what should have been big players for us have not delivered.



I agree that we're not a top 4 squad; Glasgow, Ulster, Munster and Leinster are the best teams in the league. I just don't think there's a huge difference between us and the Welsh teams/Connacht we compete with for 5th and 6th. Ospreys, Blues and Scarlets have a few good players but a lot of squad fillers and like us they suffer from the international breaks.

I'm not sure I really agree about Rasolea, Tolifau and Kevin Bryce as they were all gambles rather than key men. Rasolea could turn out like Phil Burleigh or he could turn out as he has, Tolifau is the definition of a punt. If you look at Welsh pro teams their centres are the same - young Welsh players or a punt except Scarlets who brought back Davies who's actually been pretty poor. Centres like Burleigh, Rasolea and Tolifau are the type of players that Pro12 teams with a restrictive budget can bring over. Kevin Bryce is a project we might see a return from next season or after but if we don't it's not a tragedy or the reason we're not doing well.

You're right about Manu and I've been disappointed with his play and leadership - that Highlanders team that he captained to the title were so well organised and he was a key man with Aarun and Bin Smuth and just hasn't come close to that level for us.

SHC is still 23 so technically a youngster and if he gets back to the level he can play - like I think he is at the minute - last season can be forgiven. Gilchrist is getting back from two years out which is surely difficult but he's not been good enough and has an awkward habit of getting yellow cards this season. That means if Rambo isn't out there we just don't have leaders on the pitch because despite the experience of Ford and Dickinson neither are really captain material.
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