Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby joe soap on Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:49 pm

doedin wrote:OK I think we are done here! We both agree he was a hard working pro however you think he was top 6 quality and I don't. You're welcome to your opinion and I to mine.


as I have made abundantly clear, I think he is a whole lot more than another hard working player. You have made it clear you don't really value what he brought, or that you are unable (I suspect unwilling) to recognise it as it doesn't fit your per judgement.

You are welcome to your ill informed opinion, and blinkers.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:42 pm

I thought Coman wouldn't be a huge loss but it turns out he really has been. We have better rugby players in the back row now sure but Ritchie still isn't quite there physically, Bradbury/du Preez are both 8s and struggle at the breakdown and Mata isn't very good there either. Without Coman we've be short of balance and leadership.

It's been mentioned he was like Bob Harley, we need a Bob Harley.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby biffer on Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:45 pm

joe soap wrote: or that you are unable (I suspect unwilling) to recognise it as it doesn't fit your per judgement. .


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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby hp18 on Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:46 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:I thought Coman wouldn't be a huge loss but it turns out he really has been. We have better rugby players in the back row now sure but Ritchie still isn't quite there physically, Bradbury/du Preez are both 8s and struggle at the breakdown and Mata isn't very good there either. Without Coman we've be short of balance and leadership.

It's been mentioned he was like a cut price nowhere near as good Bob Harley, we need a Bob Harley, but there's only one Bob Harley so we're LawrenceBryce.

Just for accuracy.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:21 am

Marcus Di Rollo has his say: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39616279 . Mainly sticking up for his mate Hodge and being a bit unrealistic on signings...

But this bit was interesting:

"The young players get a buzz from that - it brings them up, not suppresses them. Because if you bring in a foreign guy and they don't cut the mustard, the young Scottish guys are going to be thinking, 'I'm as good as him, surely.' And they're going to get hacked off."


Shots fired at Solly? Also thinking about it Hodge is giving young guys a lot of opportunities to be fair to him rather than the journeymen.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby joe soap on Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:36 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:Marcus Di Rollo has his say: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39616279 . Mainly sticking up for his mate Hodge and being a bit unrealistic on signings...

But this bit was interesting:

"The young players get a buzz from that - it brings them up, not suppresses them. Because if you bring in a foreign guy and they don't cut the mustard, the young Scottish guys are going to be thinking, 'I'm as good as him, surely.' And they're going to get hacked off."


Shots fired at Solly? Also thinking about it Hodge is giving young guys a lot of opportunities to be fair to him rather than the journeymen.


read that. I have a deal of sympathy with the view that Hodge was thrown in with mission impossible. Unfortunately that doesn't change what has happened or that a visibly failed coach will be staying with us.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby doedin on Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:49 am

I don't think many will disagree with Di Rollo’s views. He may be more sympathetic to Hodge than most but thats to be expected. I totally agree with his assessment of the SH journeymen brought in under Solomons and the impact that this has had on the existing and younger squad members. We really do need one or two high quality signings who can come in and set new standards for the team - SH would be a good place to start. Where is Pienaar going now that Ulster are not keeping him on? Don’t disagree either with his assessment of the current squad. Huge job for Cockerill but I get the feeling that he will relish the challenge?
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:32 am

Nasi Manu was the Super 15 captain of the Landers and didn't help bring up spirits instead he was in the press saying the mentality isn't right, Coman was a leader too and you didn't like him at all doedin!

Cockerill and the young guys will drive the standards, maybe he knows a few guys from England who will help but going to the SH looking for leaders quite clearly has failed.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby doedin on Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:51 am

Manu might have been more influential if he made it onto the pitch a bit more often, when he did he looked a cracking player. He was the standard of back row player we needed. However you can’t legislate for injuries and its a shame it never worked out for both parties. I never said in any of my posts that Coman wasn’t a leader but that he was limited as a player. But lets not start that again! However I agree that looking to the SH hasn’t worked for us in the majority of cases, perhaps we just need to be more selective and focus on quality rather than quantity? I am hoping Cockerill’s reputation and his contacts might generate a few more quality signings than Solomons did.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:53 pm

Manu has still be around the club and said after games he played in the leadership wasn't there. Also quality over quantity is fair enough but I think we need to be realistic we have a tiny budget compared to England and France so we are never going to sign the really top drawer players.

Cockerill's reputation will be in England rather than the SH.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby joe soap on Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:22 pm

doedin wrote: perhaps we just need to be more selective and focus on quality rather than quantity? .


yes, we should have not signed journeymen like Manu, Hardie, Bresler and gone for quality instead. doh!

Edinburgh are not Toulon, There is a limit on how many"big" players the can sign. Edinburgh have to shop in Aldi, not Waitrose, except for the occasional forays, and that is not a bad hit rate, injuries aside. The injuries would be Solomons fault as well no doubt.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:57 pm

The signing indignation is always a bit misplaced, who signs somebody they know is a bad player? Johnson/the coaches try and find players that are in budget and fit a need, when your budget is so non competitive that is very difficult.

Looking at Glasgow and asking how their signings work out is also misguided because the guys who sign there all have the benefit of world class coaching so of course they end up better. Who was excited about Nick Grigg when he joined the academy? But after two years of excellent coaching he's a very good player - quelle surprise.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby doedin on Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:44 pm

joe soap wrote:
doedin wrote:OK I think we are done here! We both agree he was a hard working pro however you think he was top 6 quality and I don't. You're welcome to your opinion and I to mine.


as I have made abundantly clear, I think he is a whole lot more than another hard working player. You have made it clear you don't really value what he brought, or that you are unable (I suspect unwilling) to recognise it as it doesn't fit your per judgement.

You are welcome to your ill informed opinion, and blinkers.



Calm down and read my post! I say quite clearly that you thought him a Top 6 quality type of player and by definition that makes him, in your eyes anyway, more than just a hard working player. However I still contend that he had limitations as a player, probably the same ones that meant he never quite made it into the top level in NZ with only 1 super rugby appearance to his name by the time he was 24-25. Good luck for him trying his hand by coming to Embra and playing nearly 50 games for us over 3 seasons. Looks like he is doing ok with LI in the Championship too. He might get his chance to play in the premiership next season?

Here is a selection of first choice blindside flankers/no8s who play for top 6 teams at the moment and who I presume you see Coman as being comparable to: Rhys Ruddock, Josh Van Der Flier, Peter o’Mahon, Donnacha Ryan, CJ Stander, Roger Wilson, Chris Henry, John Barclay, Shingler, Dan Bakers,Dan Lydia, Rob Harley, Josh Strauss, Ryan Wilson. For me he is not quite at this level for the reasons I described in previous posts, hence my opinion of him. It is neither ill informed nor blinkered but like yours it's an opinion. However the difference between us is I don't make ill informed judgements of other posters opinions nor criticise them for stating them. Personal opinion is what makes the board fun, attacking posters for holding different opinions is not the done thing I am afraid.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby doedin on Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:13 pm

joe soap wrote:
doedin wrote: perhaps we just need to be more selective and focus on quality rather than quantity? .


yes, we should have not signed journeymen like Manu, Hardie, Bresler and gone for quality instead. doh!

Edinburgh are not Toulon, There is a limit on how many"big" players the can sign. Edinburgh have to shop in Aldi, not Waitrose, except for the occasional forays, and that is not a bad hit rate, injuries aside. The injuries would be Solomons fault as well no doubt.


And for every Manu and a Bressler there was a Blaauw, a Strauss, a Bezudenhoit, a Lutui, an Atiga, a Dominquez, a Leonardi, a McLennan, a Te Rure, a Katoa, an Andress and a Hilterbrand for example. The likes of Helu, Allen, Tovey, Fihaki, Rasolea and Scholes have hardly been a resounding success either. To be fair to Solomons Bradley started it with some dodgy signings like Yapp and Reece for example. We got lucky with the Hardie signing I seem to remember which came through the SRU channels and he was placed with us? I accept that we are shopping in the Aldi rather than the Waitrose but I don't think the 'scatter gun’ recruitment approach has really worked for us. Nel, Dell, Bressler, Toolis and CDP look like SH keepers in the current squad but we went through a lot of rubbish over the past 3 years to get to them!

I think Di Rollo has a point in that there was a lot of SH dross that came into the squad during the Bradley and Solomons era and, with the benefit of hindsight this hasn’t had a positive impact on Embra rugby, our current position is ample proof of this. I also agree with his comment that the ‘bigger' signings haven’t had the desired impact on the team. You will need to ask Solomons if he was at fault for the injuries.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2017/18

Postby New Gunner on Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:56 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:Nasi Manu was the Super 15 captain of the Landers and didn't help bring up spirits instead he was in the press saying the mentality isn't right, Coman was a leader too and you didn't like him at all doedin!

Cockerill and the young guys will drive the standards, maybe he knows a few guys from England who will help but going to the SH looking for leaders quite clearly has failed.


I think Doedin was referring to scrum half rather than Southern Hemisphere when he said that 'SH would be a good place to start, hence the reference to Pienaar (who I appreciate is both).

I suspect Pienaar would be out of reach budget-wise, but having someone at scrum half who can control games, lead and spread composure through the team is a good call, given that position controls the pace and tactics to a degree. Can't think of a likely candidate as a player, but with the coaching changes at Glasgow Then maybe there's the opportunity for Mike Blair to come home?
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