Players good enough to be in a top 6 squad

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Re: Players good enough to be in a top 6 squad

Postby gowrie on Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:55 am

macdone wrote:
royc wrote:I don't want to start dissecting SHC's performance. Every scrummie faces slow ball and most have a couple of tricks to deal with it, such as digging out or Laidlaw's pantomime pointing for the ref.

Agree about the need to get a young Scot in at 10, as an investment in the future, if their is anyone auspicious out there. Galbraith does not seem to be getting much game time at London Scottish, he was on the bench one week but I'm not sure he has started many games? Would it be completely off the wall to get an Academy player on loan for the season? The Aviva clubs often loan out young aspirants to Championship clubs for the season, to get them some game time and experience. As well as Adam Hastings at Bath, there's Ben Chalmers at Bordeaux-Begles, he also had a very good U20 run.

Which Hutchison were you thinking of? Rory at Saints is a centre, but I know there's more than one of that ilk.


Blair Kinghorn is your man. If we have the patience to develop a young 10.


Kinghorn is a 15 first and should be played there, he played at 10 for the U18s and changed position as he got older like a lot of good players do. It doesn't make sense for us to move him and potentially waste one of our best talents, and it makes no sense for Kinghorn to want to change because he'd get less game time as 3rd choice 10 and be much farther from a Scotland cap, it's not happening.
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Re: Players good enough to be in a top 6 squad

Postby New Gunner on Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:07 pm

gowrie wrote:
macdone wrote:
royc wrote:I don't want to start dissecting SHC's performance. Every scrummie faces slow ball and most have a couple of tricks to deal with it, such as digging out or Laidlaw's pantomime pointing for the ref.

Agree about the need to get a young Scot in at 10, as an investment in the future, if their is anyone auspicious out there. Galbraith does not seem to be getting much game time at London Scottish, he was on the bench one week but I'm not sure he has started many games? Would it be completely off the wall to get an Academy player on loan for the season? The Aviva clubs often loan out young aspirants to Championship clubs for the season, to get them some game time and experience. As well as Adam Hastings at Bath, there's Ben Chalmers at Bordeaux-Begles, he also had a very good U20 run.

Which Hutchison were you thinking of? Rory at Saints is a centre, but I know there's more than one of that ilk.


Blair Kinghorn is your man. If we have the patience to develop a young 10.


Kinghorn is a 15 first and should be played there, he played at 10 for the U18s and changed position as he got older like a lot of good players do. It doesn't make sense for us to move him and potentially waste one of our best talents, and it makes no sense for Kinghorn to want to change because he'd get less game time as 3rd choice 10 and be much farther from a Scotland cap, it's not happening.


Completely agree with both - his natural talents are better suited to FB.
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Re: Players good enough to be in a top 6 squad

Postby macdone on Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:26 pm

gowrie wrote:
macdone wrote:
royc wrote:I don't want to start dissecting SHC's performance. Every scrummie faces slow ball and most have a couple of tricks to deal with it, such as digging out or Laidlaw's pantomime pointing for the ref.

Agree about the need to get a young Scot in at 10, as an investment in the future, if their is anyone auspicious out there. Galbraith does not seem to be getting much game time at London Scottish, he was on the bench one week but I'm not sure he has started many games? Would it be completely off the wall to get an Academy player on loan for the season? The Aviva clubs often loan out young aspirants to Championship clubs for the season, to get them some game time and experience. As well as Adam Hastings at Bath, there's Ben Chalmers at Bordeaux-Begles, he also had a very good U20 run.

Which Hutchison were you thinking of? Rory at Saints is a centre, but I know there's more than one of that ilk.


Blair Kinghorn is your man. If we have the patience to develop a young 10.


Kinghorn is a 15 first and should be played there, he played at 10 for the U18s and changed position as he got older like a lot of good players do. It doesn't make sense for us to move him and potentially waste one of our best talents, and it makes no sense for Kinghorn to want to change because he'd get less game time as 3rd choice 10 and be much farther from a Scotland cap, it's not happening.


We \ the SRU moved him last year. He was signed on the basis of his performances at stand off and is listed on our website as a stand off. We have an obsession with moving any running 10s to full back. If you are happy with Gordon Ross, Phil Godman, Harry Leonard and Duncan Weir then fair enough. But we can do better and the answer is under our nose.
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Re: Players good enough to be in a top 6 squad

Postby gowrie on Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:57 pm

And you could just as easily say that any time any Scottish player can manage a 10m pass without flinging it a mile high there are supporters demanding that he be moved to flyhalf. Kinghorn has had appearances there, for the U20s and for Edinburgh, and every time has looked much less composed and comfortable than he does at 15.

He's good at open field running, kick returns and fielding high balls, what about that doesn't scream fullback? As I've said, there were two better flyhalves in the U20s last season, Hastings and Hutchinson, and we'd do better trying to get one of them and giving them a go.
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Re: Players good enough to be in a top 6 squad

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:48 am

gowrie wrote:And you could just as easily say that any time any Scottish player can manage a 10m pass without flinging it a mile high there are supporters demanding that he be moved to flyhalf. Kinghorn has had appearances there, for the U20s and for Edinburgh, and every time has looked much less composed and comfortable than he does at 15.

He's good at open field running, kick returns and fielding high balls, what about that doesn't scream fullback? As I've said, there were two better flyhalves in the U20s last season, Hastings and Hutchinson, and we'd do better trying to get one of them and giving them a go.


Kinghorn playing 10 at school may have had something to do with EA having Melvin-Farr at fullback who also played for the Scotland under18s so Accies wanted to fit them both in. Right enough Kinghorn was still the best school boy 10 in the country which is not insignificant. I think Kinghorn is such a talented player that he could play anywhere in the backline well because he has all the skills and a rugby brain, play him at 13 and we have that flair player there for example.

I think he's already one of the better full backs in the league so happy with how that's turned out but would make sense to play him at 10 a few times this season and see what we have with him. I'd do the same with Jason Baggott tbh.
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Re: Players good enough to be in a top 6 squad

Postby dolf_lundgren on Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:25 pm

Why is Kinghorn only allowed to play one position? He is very talented and more than capable of being an excellent c fh and fb. Just give him time.

I hope this doesn't turn into the hysteria around Scott playing 13 last season!!

Good players don't need to be pigeonholed they will make it anyway and often have transferable skill sets
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Re: Players good enough to be in a top 6 squad

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:11 pm

Richard Cockerill got fired by Leicester, if I was Petrie or Dodson I'd certainly have a conversation with him. He's one of the best forward's coaches in the business and our pack are certainly underachieving considering the players available and we have a lot of good young guys coming through that would entice a forward minded coach. He's a winner and always makes the play offs with Leicester against salary cap cheats and far richer sides. He doesn't take any nonsense either so the attitude problems we have would be solved quickly and the player's who don't want it enough out the door. You could potentially keep Hodge as backs coach too and keep him developing because he's shown tactically he isn't there yet.

From what I gather it all went wrong for Cockerill when Mauger and the defence coach came in who have been awful. I certainly think Cockrell would help us finish top 6.
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Re: Players good enough to be in a top 6 squad

Postby gowrie on Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:30 pm

Don't think Cockerill particularly plays well with others, and I seriously doubt he'd even consider coming up here only to be an assistant coach. And he never was much of a fan of playing young talented players, there have been a number of players who've barely had a look-in for Leicester out of their academy, moved clubs and flourished.
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Re: Players good enough to be in a top 6 squad

Postby biffer on Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:25 pm

Got to imagine he'd be considered, but not sure if he'd be the right choice. Tricky one.
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Re: Players good enough to be in a top 6 squad

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:28 pm

gowrie wrote:Don't think Cockerill particularly plays well with others, and I seriously doubt he'd even consider coming up here only to be an assistant coach. And he never was much of a fan of playing young talented players, there have been a number of players who've barely had a look-in for Leicester out of their academy, moved clubs and flourished.


I meant as DoR and Hodge reverts back to attack coach - apologies for the confusion. I think that's the issue and it probably would end in tears with him and the SRU. But, he would have to bring through youth, Leicester is a bit different - they have more money, more prestige, they're competing at the top every year which attracts big names. Also Cockerill would've had to compete yearly and if you can bring in a big name to help immediately that's better than a youngster who can help in a few years. Whereas at Edinburgh we don't have too much money, we aren't a big name competing at the top level and the expectations aren't as high so if Cockerill wants a really, really good player he'll have to develop them and he's not under the same immediate pressures.
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Re: Players good enough to be in a top 6 squad

Postby biffer on Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:08 pm

Leicester don't generally take on big name signings though. One or two in the last couple of years but that's them finally folding to pressure, and they've generally been old blokes looking for a payday - JdV, Thorne. Leicester generally look for undeveloped talent or the ability to fulfil a very specific role - guys like Waldron for example.
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Re: Players good enough to be in a top 6 squad

Postby The Chiel on Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:39 pm

I'd enjoy watching Scott Johnson trying to tell Cockerill how to run a rugby team. The BFB would be decked in no time flat.
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Re: Players good enough to be in a top 6 squad

Postby dolf_lundgren on Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:57 pm

We could certainly do worse. Should add a hard edge, but then may lose the players pretty quickly.

Im not sure Hodge coudl go back now, he would twice have been overlooked so loses credibility. Cockerill would probably want his own team too. I really dont like the guy, he makes some stupid statements at the end of games but he is a winner, passioanate and is single minded. He has the attributes that the current team doesnt have.

Seemed quite clueless vs Glasgow though.

I dont think he is that bad at bringing through young players, most of their players came through their academy, Leicestr are one of the few teams who have the infrastructure to compete without a sugar daddy.

If he wants to bring his pal Neil Back he can LawrenceBryce right off though!
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Re: Players good enough to be in a top 6 squad

Postby gowrie on Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:04 pm

Reading a bit about what Leicester/AP fans are saying about him, I'm not too keen on the idea. His big drawbacks seem to be:
- Unable to keep up with modern tactics and changes
- Poor rotation and not paying enough attention to player welfare

Maybe up here where he'd be somewhat out of the spotlight and facing a whole new set of limitations on budget and squad he'd change his ways, but it seems like a big risk to me.

I can see why some would like it, he's got a winner's hunger and consistently seems to be able to get as much out of his players as you can get, which are huuuuuuuuuuuge problems for us.

But overall it just sounds to me like it'd be a repeat of the Solomons era, with maybe marginally improved results.
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Re: Players good enough to be in a top 6 squad

Postby biffer on Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:15 pm

The Chiel wrote:I'd enjoy watching Scott Johnson trying to tell Cockerill how to run a rugby team. The BFB would be decked in no time flat.


This would obviously be a bonus.
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