New Head Coach

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Re: New Head Coach

Postby biffer on Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:26 pm

Bottom line, there's something amiss at the club which leads to massively inconsistent performances within the same half of rugby. Call that concentration, or whatever else, but a bloody good kick up the backside over eighteen months might be worth trying.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:22 pm

The article is here:

Edit - the picture of the article was far too big so here's a link to it: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5CbxR8WAAA_Afz.jpg:large

The Rugby Paper is still a bit of a lottery regarding rumours but Rob Robertson and Mark Palmer are usually very reliable for Scottish Rugby and at least Robertson has mentioned Cockerill's name.

It's interesting the article claims we were looking in the Southern Hemisphere, I wonder if there is substance to the Akkermann rumours in that we at least approached him, would've been the ideal guy as he has taken a weak side in the Lions and made them a force. But I think Cockerill will whip this team into shape and unlike Solomons or Hodge the only reason he'd be coming here is to win the Pro12 and that immediately changes the team.

Also, although the article says at the end of the season ideally we could get Cockerill in now to assess the squad, I thought Boudjellal was going to fire everyone there anyway so maybe worth seeing if he could speed up the cleaning house.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby royc on Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:36 pm

biffer wrote:Bottom line, there's something amiss at the club which leads to massively inconsistent performances within the same half of rugby. Call that concentration, or whatever else, but a bloody good kick up the backside over eighteen months might be worth trying.


It depends on whether one thinks brain power or mouth power is the answer. For me, the former wins hands down, we must agree to differ here.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby biffer on Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:49 pm

royc wrote:
biffer wrote:Bottom line, there's something amiss at the club which leads to massively inconsistent performances within the same half of rugby. Call that concentration, or whatever else, but a bloody good kick up the backside over eighteen months might be worth trying.


It depends on whether one thinks brain power or mouth power is the answer. For me, the former wins hands down, we must agree to differ here.


I can understand that but I don't think brain power is going to work this time. We've tried the brain power already in my opinion, haven't tried the Cockerill's approach.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby sammy on Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:51 pm

Not sure we've had modern rugby brain power before, and it's exactly what we need. I can't see how we're going to start wining by sacking the few promising players we have, or making them hate playing for Edinburgh. Hard enough to attract players as it is. Cockerill will be yet another mistaken appointment for Edinburgh IMO.

Who do we think should was responsible on Friday? Who should we expect to be running the fast paced gainline breaks down, who was the last defender: Hoyland ,Kinghorn. Are these the players we need to replace. Maybe its the players that were hyped up for the Scotland squad Du Preez and Bradbury that were not putting in the effort.

We did dissolve in the second half away from home to Leinster, with an injury ravaged side. Leinster 2nd are better than ours, that should be not great surprise to anyone. I think the team, who are by and large young and green, were desperate to win, so heads did go down once the game was lost, and leadership on the pitch disappeared. It was never going to be easy to transition to be a more attacking team.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:28 am

Just a question what is modern rugby brain power?

I don't think we need anything complicated. When Glasgow were in our position Lineen came in and played a simple gameplan where they'd kick the corners and were stingy in defence, a team that was very hard to beat. So when Townsend came in he had a very solid base to work from, he had a team of winners with leaders like Kellock and Hall who were proud of what Glasgow were doing so would roll their sleeves up and get the job done and they demanded everyone else who played for Glasgow did the same. Townsend always says Glasgow is a players club and that's why they are successful. Rob Harley is a fairly limited player but would run through the inner circles of hell for Glasgow and that's what every successful club has.

We need a hard edge and we need leaders. We don't need Cockerill to win us the Pro12 - he probably won't. But we need him to leave us in a position where the next coach can win the Pro12 with the foundations in place. I hope Cockerill can turn us around and get us into the top 4 in a few years time and leave a platform for Mike Blair or Duncan Hodge to take over and win us the Pro12.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby sammy on Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:29 am

For me it's someone that up can adapt to our players, the opposition, changes in the game and who get's the team playing 15 man rugby. Someone that can develop players and the team's believe. Cockerill feels to me like Solomon's mark II - maybe slightly better, who'll try and do it all himself and marginalise others around him until he's off somewhere when a job with a higher profile comes along. I don't want to watch a team defending and kicking to the corners living of scraps, we've wasted years on this failed approach. It seems like its a done deal though :(

After the the years of rubbish the SRU has palmed us off for, the criminal lack of forward planned of replacements, the SRU really should have push the boat out for Edinburgh this time, but I'm getting the impression they just don't care about us. Did they even try attract Pat Lam, or ask Rennie if he would have come to Edinburgh.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby joe soap on Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:08 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:When Glasgow were in our position Lineen came in and played a simple gameplan where they'd kick the corners and were stingy in defence, a team that was very hard to beat. .


now that is revisionism bordering on a simplistic crock of SteveWalsh. Lineen like him or not spent how many years coaching a jamesmatthew Glasgow. What he might have had some input to was building the culture at Glasgow, the underdog, underfunded and not the favoured child of the SRU; while nurturing the narrative that Edinburgh went soft under the noses of national coaches who favoured them.
And not a few Edinburgh players believed that last bit as it happens, and there lies the root of Edinburgh's current predicament, players thought they were under the national coaches noses and it all got a bit too "comfortable and cosy" .
What we have had since despite Solly's frantic singing spree has been sticking plasters. Solly gutted out some deadwood and coasters (and maybe TonySpreadbury doff a few others in the process, who knows) but he was never a long term solution.
The solution is to get away from Murrayfield and team Scotland, to build an identity, Edinburgh Rugby's own identity. That does not come quickly or easily - and it takes brains rather than a shouty mouth who has proved he can do exactly the opposite -as Leicester DoR Cockerill has pretty effectively run down a proper club; such success as he has had is all down to legacy and money, lots of money. Edinburgh need a modern coach with a brain not a dinosaur with at best a dead cat bounce
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:20 am

joe soap wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:When Glasgow were in our position Lineen came in and played a simple gameplan where they'd kick the corners and were stingy in defence, a team that was very hard to beat. .


now that is revisionism bordering on a simplistic crock of SteveWalsh. Lineen like him or not spent how many years coaching a jamesmatthew Glasgow. What he might have had some input to was building the culture at Glasgow, the underdog, underfunded and not the favoured child of the SRU; while nurturing the narrative that Edinburgh went soft under the noses of national coaches who favoured them.

The solution is to get away from Murrayfield and team Scotland, to build an identity, Edinburgh Rugby's own identity. That does not come quickly or easily - and it takes brains rather than a shouty mouth who has proved he can do exactly the opposite -as Leicester DoR Cockerill has pretty effectively run down a proper club; such success as he has had is all down to legacy and money, lots of money. Edinburgh need a modern coach with a brain not a dinosaur with at best a dead cat bounce


Not sure what the revisionism is? Lineen did a fantastic job with Glasgow, a really great job, I'd have taken him here but nobody is going to mistake his style to free flowing rugby.

I agree about the culture, but disagree Cockerill is only 'shouty' and you build a culture by winning.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby joe soap on Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:33 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Not sure what the revisionism is? Lineen did a fantastic job with Glasgow, a really great job, I'd have taken him here but nobody is going to mistake his style to free flowing rugby.

Friday Knight Lights wrote:When Glasgow were in our position Lineen came in and played a simple gameplan where they'd kick the corners and were stingy in defence, a team that was very hard to beat.
.


when Lineen became Head Coach Glasgow had finished last; then had a few reasonable seasons with some progress but in his penultimate season they finished 11th. He got them to a play off in his last season by which time the decision to remove him based on that 11th had already been made. He under achieved at Glasgow and had lost players due to his "style". Kellock was the driver of the Glasgow "culture", not Lineen
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:49 pm

joe soap wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Not sure what the revisionism is? Lineen did a fantastic job with Glasgow, a really great job, I'd have taken him here but nobody is going to mistake his style to free flowing rugby.

Friday Knight Lights wrote:When Glasgow were in our position Lineen came in and played a simple gameplan where they'd kick the corners and were stingy in defence, a team that was very hard to beat.
.


when Lineen became Head Coach Glasgow had finished last; then had a few reasonable seasons with some progress but in his penultimate season they finished 11th. He got them to a play off in his last season by which time the decision to remove him based on that 11th had already been made. He under achieved at Glasgow and had lost players due to his "style". Kellock was the driver of the Glasgow "culture", not Lineen


I said Kellock and Hall drove the culture.

Glasgow yo-yoed under Lineen, they finished 3rd the year before they finished second last. He was inconsistent but much better than what we've achieved of late.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby germain on Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:52 pm

joe soap wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Not sure what the revisionism is? Lineen did a fantastic job with Glasgow, a really great job, I'd have taken him here but nobody is going to mistake his style to free flowing rugby.

Friday Knight Lights wrote:When Glasgow were in our position Lineen came in and played a simple gameplan where they'd kick the corners and were stingy in defence, a team that was very hard to beat.
.


when Lineen became Head Coach Glasgow had finished last; then had a few reasonable seasons with some progress but in his penultimate season they finished 11th. He got them to a play off in his last season by which time the decision to remove him based on that 11th had already been made. He under achieved at Glasgow and had lost players due to his "style". Kellock was the driver of the Glasgow "culture", not Lineen


And in his antepenultimate season, he was in semi-final. He was a key to Glasgow's success and spirit. He was not alone of course, but I don't see any reason to deny this to him.
With him and the players we have, i have no doubt that we would be top 6 and semi-final contenders.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby Oldsalt on Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:11 pm

FKL under Solomons hard nosed approach and limited game plan we lost Laidlaw, Denton, Scott and Visser. That was at the time probably our best four players overall. I hope I'm wrong but I can't get past Cockerill Mr Angry persona. Who will leave this time Nel, Toolis, Bradbury or Hoyland?

Q Why do you have such a thing for Cockerill and are you Scott Johnson in disguise?
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby biffer on Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:29 pm

Oldsalt wrote:FKL under Solomons hard nosed approach and limited game plan we lost Laidlaw, Denton, Scott and Visser. That was at the time probably our best four players overall. I hope I'm wrong but I can't get past Cockerill Mr Angry persona. Who will leave this time Nel, Toolis, Bradbury or Hoyland?

Q Why do you have such a thing for Cockerill and are you Scott Johnson in disguise?


Nel is Cockerill's kind of player, he'll fit right in. If anything I think it'd make him more likely to stay (not that I think we have a huge chance of keeping him). Similarly Cockerill is the kind of coach who can address the weaknesses that Cotter perceives in Bradbury's game. For the forwards, they're getting to work with someone who has a great reputation as a coach. I actually think he'll like Hoyland as well, Damien loves a bit of hard work and is hungry for the ball, and has no fear of a bit of physical contact - and he's not just a bish bash coach with the backs, look at guys like Allen, Tait, Flood, Agulla etc at Leicester, they were constants in some of his best sides. This idea that Cockerill just shouts isn't true - there's a bit of that in the external persona, but if that was all he did he wouldn't have been in that position at Leicester for such a long time. He is very much an 'us against the world' type of coach, believes in his players and helps them to build themselves up. Siege mentality kind of thing.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby Oldsalt on Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:40 pm

Liecester was Cockerill club not Edinburgh so slightly different setting Biffer. Who knows who will take to him and who will not. Oh and by the way just noted on the BBC website that Alan Solomons has been signed up by Bristol as a consultant. At least they have a rich owner that can afford to waste money.
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