New Head Coach

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New Head Coach

Postby Edinburgh Shark on Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:07 am

Sounds like Edinburgh may be making eyes at someone... https://twitter.com/gavinmortimer7/status/828508873157902336?s=02

Personally think it would be a good choice, has a touch of Andy Robinson about it.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby robdinsdale on Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:50 am

I'm not so sure, some of which may be due to him being a bit of a ****.

Also feels like a bit of a step back in rugby terms. We've just had Solomons with his forwards-orientated rugby and no tolerance for players that didn't fit into that ethos, and that didn't seem very popular.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby jkay on Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:11 am

test, (sorry for inconvenience)
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby bignose on Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:32 am

robdinsdale wrote:I'm not so sure, some of which may be due to him being a bit of a ****.

Also feels like a bit of a step back in rugby terms. We've just had Solomons with his forwards-orientated rugby and no tolerance for players that didn't fit into that ethos, and that didn't seem very popular.


I think from what I've read/heard that Solomons had zero tolerance for those who didn't stick to or who questioned the plan. Cockerill - on the other hand - has zero tolerance for those that aren't prepared to dig in and man up.

The Solomons era was "keep it tight in the forwards, even if the forwards are getting beasted by their opposite numbers", whereas the Cockerill approach would be "what the LawrenceBryce do you mean, 'the forwards are getting beasted by their opposite numbers'?".

The former is frustrating, tedious madness. The latter is necessary if we are to build a platform on which to play any kind of entertaining (winning) rugby.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby GaryIPA on Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:29 pm

robdinsdale wrote:I'm not so sure, some of which may be due to him being a bit of a ****.

Also feels like a bit of a step back in rugby terms. We've just had Solomons with his forwards-orientated rugby and no tolerance for players that didn't fit into that ethos, and that didn't seem very popular.


He'd be our **** though
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby zt1903 on Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:18 pm

I would be hard pushed to think of a coach that I dislike more than Cockers. He truly is an unpleasant twat.

I think he'll be perfect for us.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby Crichton Gunner on Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:57 pm

Have to admit I'm not very clear on this point - who actually decides who our next head coach is? Petrie, Dodson, Johnson, someone else, or a selection of the aforementioned?
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:06 pm

Crichton Gunner wrote:Have to admit I'm not very clear on this point - who actually decides who our next head coach is? Petrie, Dodson, Johnson, someone else, or a selection of the aforementioned?


Dodson as CEO and Johnson as DoR I think.

When the SRU announced Rennie to Glasgow the press release had quotes from Dodson and Rennie but not Bombrys, so you'd imagine he/Petrie have some say but far from a decisive one. It's inconceivable that as Director of Performance Rugby who is in charge of the Pro teams that Johnson is not heavily involved.

I wonder if we get rebuffed by Cockerill if we go after someone else or give it to Hodge and the affect it'll have on him and the squad knowing he wasn't first choice.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby Martin Bell on Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:30 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:I wonder if we get rebuffed by Cockerill if we go after someone else or give it to Hodge and the affect it'll have on him and the squad knowing he wasn't first choice.


That's if there's any truth in this, of course!

I agree with Rob on this one. I would not see such an appointment as a step forward. More likely, it would see us playing a similar style to that under Alan Solomons under a not dissimilar approach to management. If we want to play a limited, highly structured, forward-oriented game then fair enough. But I think we want to kick on from that and play expansive, winning rugby.

I'd have Andy Robinson back in a trice, if he was willing, but it's not obvious to me why Duncan Hodge should not be the permanent head coach.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby biffer on Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:40 pm

Martin Bell wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:I wonder if we get rebuffed by Cockerill if we go after someone else or give it to Hodge and the affect it'll have on him and the squad knowing he wasn't first choice.


That's if there's any truth in this, of course!

I agree with Rob on this one. I would not see such an appointment as a step forward. More likely, it would see us playing a similar style to that under Alan Solomons under a not dissimilar approach to management. If we want to play a limited, highly structured, forward-oriented game then fair enough. But I think we want to kick on from that and play expansive, winning rugby.

I'd have Andy Robinson back in a trice, if he was willing, but it's not obvious to me why Duncan Hodge should not be the permanent head coach.


I'd rather Hosge proved why he should be the permanent head coach. I've seen nothing so far that suggests he should be.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby Sonicboom on Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:54 pm

I am not convinced by the idea of Cockerill at all and would not be happy at the idea of him being head coach. His rugby and management styles seem years out of date and it is alarming to see several Leicester fans online talking about the negative effect they feel he has had on their academy system. If we are going to develop we will have to rely heavily on bringing young talent through and should look to appoint a coach capable of doing so.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:58 pm

Martin Bell wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:I wonder if we get rebuffed by Cockerill if we go after someone else or give it to Hodge and the affect it'll have on him and the squad knowing he wasn't first choice.


That's if there's any truth in this, of course!

I agree with Rob on this one. I would not see such an appointment as a step forward. More likely, it would see us playing a similar style to that under Alan Solomons under a not dissimilar approach to management. If we want to play a limited, highly structured, forward-oriented game then fair enough. But I think we want to kick on from that and play expansive, winning rugby.

I'd have Andy Robinson back in a trice, if he was willing, but it's not obvious to me why Duncan Hodge should not be the permanent head coach.


I want to start with winning rugby before we start to worry about about expansive rugby.

Also, Robinson's modus operandi a limited, highly structured, forward oriented game, surely if you don't want Cockerill for those reasons then a return to Robinson is also a step backwards?

The problem is Hodge is we beat Ulster than we lose to the Dragons and in the press senior players are talking about attitude problems. I've seen good things from Hodge and we're playing better rugby but we are still fragile and his Pro12 record is not good: won 3 (Ulster, the Italians) lost 4 (including the Dragons and Zebre).
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby doedin on Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:47 pm

Not that anyone is interested but here is my take anyway ...

Solomons was getting nowhere with his very limited forwards based 10 man rugby based on an outdated SA style of 90’s rugby. The world had moved on but he hadn’t. He didnt make use of the players he had and he completely mismanaged the squad last summer to leave Hodge with real problems in a number of positions. He lost the supporters and looked like he had lost the team. SRU kept him about 18 months beyond his sell buy date and we TonySpreadbury a lot of money against the wall on some very dodgy SH journeymen. Glad he has gone!

Robinson got us to our best ever positions in the league, we scored tries and recorded our highest ever score against the now mighty Connaght. I seem to remember he played a different style of rugby to Solomons and we had some flair in the back line as well as a decent pack. I don't agree with FKL’s assessment of the style of rugby we played under him. I would have Robinson back but perhaps it is wrong to try and go back in time?

Let’s not reflect too long on the days of Bradley. In fact lets not bother at all!

Cockerill would be a high risk appointment. He is a strong character who managed a Leicester team based on their traditional strength around the pack and a 10 man game and relied heavily on Tuliagi in the backs. However the recent performances of the Leicester team are not good and whilst there has been lots or rumours about unhappiness behind the scenes they still performed poorly once he had left. His teams play a very pragmatic style of rugby and like Solomons has got left behind as other teams like Glasgow have moved on and up. I am not sure we will ever have a squad of home grown and developed SQ guys that would fit his style of rugby. I don't think he is the right fit for us.

Hodge has been dealt a pretty poor hand. Asked to step up and lead a squad so early in the season, at short notice and that has strengths and real weaknesses after 3+ years under Solomons. He has also had to cope with our major strength namely the front row being decimated by injury and we have ended up having to draft in young guys from SA, Argentina and England just to fill the bench. We also have lost a lot of time from our so called experienced forwards due to injury of Hardie, Gilchrist and Manu. None of them have performed to their best or even close to it this season. I doubt anyone could have done any better in terms of results. However does he have enough to re-shape the squad over the summer and take us into challenging for a top 6 place? I am not sure. On one hand he has got the team playing decent rugby at times and we have had some notable wins in the Diddy Cup but we have also seen our pack under perform and not really looking like making the best of the individual talents. I worry that he, and the likes of Scott, have little experience of playing or managing outside Edinburgh and that he will be more of the same.

I don't think Cockerill is our man, he is too high a risk and I don't think either party will deliver what is expected from the other. I honestly don't think our pack is lacking in aggression, motivation, fitness etc (Watson, Dell and Ford did ok on these fronts on Saturday!). I think what we lack is technique and accuracy and look less drilled and disciplined than we need to be. I would suggest we need better coaching of the pack and the likes of Richie Gray coming in to help would make a big difference in technique and execution at the breakdown. Perhaps we need to look at Scott’s position?

I would be happier taking a chance on Hodge. However I would like to see some changes in the backroom staff and perhaps a closer role for Townsend in quietly behind the scenes mentoring Hodge. I would also like to see Blair coming in as the backs coach, he impresses me with his analysis and thinking behind the game and I suspect could bring something to our backline and to help SHC with his development. Finally perhaps we need a new forward coach, perhaps someone coming along the M8? However if there was an outstanding external candidate then I am still open to offers!
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:31 am

I agree with much of what you said doedin.

Hodge has been dealt a bad hand, it isn't completely his fault that results haven't been good in the Pro12 and there are some signs of life. However, rugby is a results business. You can't be losing to Zebre and the Dragons then have Nasi Manu in the press after a defeat saying we aren't mentally right for some games, if players weren't performing at the level required then that is down to the head coach. It's quite damning players say that stuff in the press and performances and results suggest it's true, We're better against teams like Quins than we are Zebre, or like against Stade we're literally awful in one half and unplayable in the other those are a sign of quite big attitude problems in the team. Also, injuries happen every year and so does availability, Glasgow had around 25 players at the RWC last year but they still came top 4.

Robbo's sides played good rugby but his teams were well organised and the pack dominated games which opened up space IIRC. He wasn't a good attack coach, at Scotland the players had no clue what the plan was, that wasn't because Robbo completely changed his tactics, that was Scotland didn't have the pack to bully teams. It was the same with Bristol, scored an obscene amount when Bristol could dominate up front in the Champ but he was exposed in the Prem. With England too he was very limited. He was never a bastion of expansive rugby and never will be but we remember it fondly because we won games. When teams are winning fans are always happy with the rugby they play, England are awful to watch right now but do their fans care? Absolutely not. When the pack are punching holes your backs have space so it looks like flair rather than just effective game planning.

And for all 'Cockerill's style is outdated and doesn't work' his finishes in the AP at Leicester suggests it really does: 1st and won the final, 1st and lost the final, 2nd and lost the final, 2nd and won the final, 3rd lost in the play offs, 4th lost in the playoffs and 4th lost in the playoffs. There is a slight decline but still consistently top 4 and around the same points total. In addition the decline coincided with spivs such as Sarries, Bath, Wasps all being loaded with money and the talent that bought. And for all the money Sarries, Bath and Exeter who are up there play a very similar style to Leicester.
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Re: New Head Coach

Postby macdone on Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:32 am

To be fair to Cockerill he has always had Leicester in the top 4 and taken them to 5 Premiership finals, winning 3. He is a competitor - I couldn't see him accepting us finishing 10th.

His teams have always scored tries because he has had good backs coaches like Pat Howard and Matt O´Connor. The problem this year has been a fall out between him and Aaron Mauger. And injuries to Tuilagi, JP Pietersen, Veaniu and Tomooa.

He would want some assurances on signing players before agreeing to come. Hodge isn't in the position to ask for that unfortunately. I think he would fight our corner. I hope we get him.
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