Leinster v Edinburgh 17 Feb 17 (19:35) on BBC Alba

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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 17 Feb 17 (19:35) on BBC Alba

Postby GaryIPA on Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:32 pm

I agree on Manu, he mau have been an inspired signing but his injuries seem to have rendered him useless. He needs the heave to release the funds
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 17 Feb 17 (19:35) on BBC Alba

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:36 pm

doedin wrote:
... and therein lies our problem, we all think we are better than we actually are! We are 3rd bottom because we lose more games than everyone else apart from the italian teams, and even then it is getting close. I think the players believe they are better than a bottom three place too and fail to put in the work in preparation and on the pitch. It is not just work on physical fitness but in skills, in game management and in resilience and motivation. If Manu thinks the attitude is wrong then surely that is why he was brought in to the squad to provide some leadership? I don't think he has had any impact on or off the pitch and must be costing us a fortune in medic bills. He should have been a great investment and leader but so far he has been a waste of money.

I had thought that Hodge deserved a chance given the situation he found himself in but unfortunately he has not been able to change the attitude nor the performances of the squad. I dont think he provides the solution for next season and along with the coaching team haven’t done enough to suggest they should remain in post next season. The SRU need to now step up with their plans for the coaching team for next season so that the new guy has sometime to influence the squad for next season.


Great post. It's getting very hard to defend the squad.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 17 Feb 17 (19:35) on BBC Alba

Postby gowrie on Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:28 pm

The issue is, what's the alternative? There simply isn't the money, nor the players to swap the squad we have for another. We've tried NSQs that we can afford and that didn't work, the young guys we have show up in bursts but are obviously not ready yet to take the team forward.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 17 Feb 17 (19:35) on BBC Alba

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:58 pm

gowrie wrote:The issue is, what's the alternative? There simply isn't the money, nor the players to swap the squad we have for another. We've tried NSQs that we can afford and that didn't work, the young guys we have show up in bursts but are obviously not ready yet to take the team forward.


Getting a really good coach in who does not accept anything other than 100% commitment, focus and effort at all times to get some pride back into the jersey. That will put a stop to these 40 minute performances and make Edinburgh a strong team that's horrible to play against as they do not take a backwards step or leave anything on the field. In doing so transforming the club from a comfortable place where winning doesn't matter and make the club a great club where winning is all that matters.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 17 Feb 17 (19:35) on BBC Alba

Postby dolf_lundgren on Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:08 pm

Agree with that.

We need to stop being nice, if a player is not pulling their weight then they need to go. Stop waiting for them to get better. I want Manu to be the leader he can be and play the way he can but if he is not doing it then he needs to go. Same for Gilchrist, but the coach needs to set a standard and the players have to want to have standards too.

The Jim Telfer "honest player" speech is made for this Edinburgh squad. We need it rammed home to them that a contract at Edinburgh is not the pinnacle of their career, it is the start of it.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 17 Feb 17 (19:35) on BBC Alba

Postby dolf_lundgren on Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:19 pm

Personally dont like the man but I think this is the sort of character we need. Failure shoudl not be acceptable.

https://planetradio.co.uk/clyde/sport/f ... interview/
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 17 Feb 17 (19:35) on BBC Alba

Postby GaryIPA on Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:27 pm

Its a shame Danny Brough couldn't have been converted to RU
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 17 Feb 17 (19:35) on BBC Alba

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:43 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:Personally dont like the man but I think this is the sort of character we need. Failure shoudl not be acceptable.

https://planetradio.co.uk/clyde/sport/f ... interview/


Or .... http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/leice ... story.html


Imagine this in the papers after last night:

"It was not good enough. We were inaccurate and I was bitterly disappointed with our performance across the board," said an angry Cockerill.

"We lost every contact and our lack of composure and ball control was poor. I have no complaints. Leinster played well and they deserved to win.

"I was not surprised how Leinster played because they needed more points at their end of the table but they were good for their win.

"We need a good look at ourselves and we have to start putting things right on game day, which we haven't been doing.

"We found a little bit out about some people's personalities at Leinster. I am not going to be too criticial of individuals publicly but we would be pretending if we think that is an acceptable performance from us because it clearly wasn't.


What the club needs in my opinion.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 17 Feb 17 (19:35) on BBC Alba

Postby bignose on Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:04 pm

Leicester obviously decided that they *didn't* need it.

Disclosure: I like Cockerill's style and attitude and think he was screwed over by Mauger but it doesn't work with everyone.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 17 Feb 17 (19:35) on BBC Alba

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:30 am

bignose wrote:Leicester obviously decided that they *didn't* need it.

Disclosure: I like Cockerill's style and attitude and think he was screwed over by Mauger but it doesn't work with everyone.


After eight years they decided that - which is a long time and if the new coach does well here I doubt they'd stay eight years. There's a limit to where you can go with Edinburgh and Glasgow really.

I think a complete clear house of the coaching team is necessary. I also think we need to find training facilities away from Murrayfield - or at least stop them using the stadium's changing rooms.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 17 Feb 17 (19:35) on BBC Alba

Postby macdone on Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:13 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
bignose wrote:Leicester obviously decided that they *didn't* need it.

Disclosure: I like Cockerill's style and attitude and think he was screwed over by Mauger but it doesn't work with everyone.


After eight years they decided that - which is a long time and if the new coach does well here I doubt they'd stay eight years. There's a limit to where you can go with Edinburgh and Glasgow really.

I think a complete clear house of the coaching team is necessary. I also think we need to find training facilities away from Murrayfield - or at least stop them using the stadium's changing rooms.


That should be a simple one - that's what Oriam was built for. The fact they have indoor as well should make it a no brainer.

Personally I would love to see Ackermann here but maybe wishful thinking. Would be chuffed with Lancaster or Cockerill too. Agree we need a complete clear out.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 17 Feb 17 (19:35) on BBC Alba

Postby joe soap on Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:10 am

macdone wrote:That should be a simple one - that's what Oriam was built for. The fact they have indoor as well should make it a no brainer.
.


and isn't that where the Scotland squad train? I think, I hoe, the point is Edinburgh players should have their own facilities and that the risk of anyone thinking they are favoured by training with Scotland (hah) is taken away
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 17 Feb 17 (19:35) on BBC Alba

Postby gowrie on Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:08 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
gowrie wrote:The issue is, what's the alternative? There simply isn't the money, nor the players to swap the squad we have for another. We've tried NSQs that we can afford and that didn't work, the young guys we have show up in bursts but are obviously not ready yet to take the team forward.


Getting a really good coach in who does not accept anything other than 100% commitment, focus and effort at all times to get some pride back into the jersey. That will put a stop to these 40 minute performances and make Edinburgh a strong team that's horrible to play against as they do not take a backwards step or leave anything on the field. In doing so transforming the club from a comfortable place where winning doesn't matter and make the club a great club where winning is all that matters.


I accept that, but it just feels wrong to put it all on the coaches, these guys are adults and shouldn't need their hand held for such basic stuff. Especially Bradbury/Du Preez, they knew Strauss was out, and this was potentially their big opportunity to take that Scotland shirt, and they still can't be bothered in the second half and get brushed aside in defence.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 17 Feb 17 (19:35) on BBC Alba

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:39 pm

gowrie wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
gowrie wrote:The issue is, what's the alternative? There simply isn't the money, nor the players to swap the squad we have for another. We've tried NSQs that we can afford and that didn't work, the young guys we have show up in bursts but are obviously not ready yet to take the team forward.


Getting a really good coach in who does not accept anything other than 100% commitment, focus and effort at all times to get some pride back into the jersey. That will put a stop to these 40 minute performances and make Edinburgh a strong team that's horrible to play against as they do not take a backwards step or leave anything on the field. In doing so transforming the club from a comfortable place where winning doesn't matter and make the club a great club where winning is all that matters.


I accept that, but it just feels wrong to put it all on the coaches, these guys are adults and shouldn't need their hand held for such basic stuff. Especially Bradbury/Du Preez, they knew Strauss was out, and this was potentially their big opportunity to take that Scotland shirt, and they still can't be bothered in the second half and get brushed aside in defence.


It's the coaches responsibility to fire up the players though.

I agree that it is harsh, ultimately I like what Hodge is trying and the execution is improving in some aspects. But you can't sack the players - well all of them. I would let most whose deal is up this year leave without a new deal and then offer others like Scholes and Rasolea to look for other clubs. If there are a few senior players setting down bad examples they should go too. I'd keep the props and Hardie because he gives his all for Edinburgh every time but the rest can leave.

But the club needs a statement that this malaise is completely unacceptable and I think a new coaching staff who are well regarded is the way to do that.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 17 Feb 17 (19:35) on BBC Alba

Postby royc on Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:52 pm

You can sack the coach as an instant answer, but it won't IMO change the basic problems. To do that needs a change of thinking along at HQ.

ER lost heavily last night because of

a) Under-strength pack: More than half the forwards (15 of 26) are either injured or off with Scotland. The pack started with 2 x first picks, 4 x second choices and 7 x 3rd/4th/5th/6th players. No surprise they didn't win with a stellar display.

b) Tactical wishful thinking: You can clock up 300m gained, 200 passes and 150 carries by throwing the ball about, but if you don't have the tactics or players able to breach a very good oppo defence, as Leinster's, you just end up tiring the team out in the first 40 and leaving yourself struggling in the second 40, as happened.

c) A less than stellar back division: if Leinster or anyone else were given the choice of how many Embra backs they would like to sign up, I doubt there would be more than 3 or 4 selected. We are Mr average in too many positions, playing 2nd-choice players as first choices, and ones who would struggle for a contract elsewhere as 2nd choices.

d) Deja vu: You can blame effort and resolve, but if a team is being consistently beaten, then heads inevitably go down and efforts diminish. If you have really strong, determined leadership on the field, leading by example and exhortation, you might ameliorate that, but ER doesn't have the leaders, especially after Cochrane went off.

You can lose Hodge, but it won't affect the fact that:

- Both Scott and Wilkins are contracted through to end next season; how many senior coaches would take the gig on when they can't even choose their own assistants?

- Only 4 backs are out of contract, none of them 1st choice picks, so your options for change are very limited

- Of the 8 forwards out of contract, three will likely be re-signed and the money won't be there for another 4, so the scope to ring the changes is again very limited

- The number of academy boys ready and good enough to step up is nothing like many fans' expectations, there are perhaps 4 or 5 at a stretch, but many are simply not big enough or good enough for the Pro game.

There are answers to all these things but they would take a couple of seasons to bring about change and it would require quite a shift in priorities and practical assistance from the SRU.
Last edited by royc on Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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