Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby gowrie on Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:58 pm

I think there is a difference between Cockerill's way and Williams'. Williams used it more as a tactic, tell players they're doing badly to provoke a reaction and get them to improve, Cockerill seems more likely to just be blunt and the players will recognise that, if they're playing well he'll say so and the same for the reverse.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby disco on Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:32 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:
I don't want my expectations managed, I want to be told we will win the league, then I want him to prove it. If not he can LawrenceBryce off!


:) Fair enough, you should seek him out after the match next week and tell him so.

I want him to be saying the same and all being well next season or the season after he may well be, however I think that is unrealistic for this coming season, although who knows we could make a right Connacht of things and surprise a few folk.

It took Pat Lam 3 seasons to Connacht things! And he was building on a solid foundation put in place by Eric Elwood which Cockerill certainly doesn't have.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby Tichtheid on Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:33 pm

I want a coach to be honest, brutally so when necessary. Cockers has only said what is true - Edinburgh haven't deserved to be top six or they would have been. Pro sport is unforgiving, no one has a right to anything other by merit alone and you earn your standing in a league by the end of the season, no ifs, buts, or whatevers.

The players are good players playing poorly, that is what Cockerill is saying, it's what many of us have been saying. He has come in and identified a poor culture of self-satisfaction and laziness. Good for him. I think most of us would accept whatever results come our way if it looks like they are giving it everything they have, and playing smart - some of the games we've thrown away have had me wishing I'd been following the curling or shinty, anything except the tripe I was watching - there were games against Ulster and Munster when it was in the bag but we couldn't win despite the odds being against us chucking it way - remember Sammy having to attempt the drop goal himself for the win when Tonks was in the bin? No one else had the nads or the wherewithal to step up and give it a go

I like Fraz for captain, he isn't a guaranteed starter, but I like the abrasiveness he brings, if the pack can start playing like eight Frazes we will earn a grudging respect, so if not Fraz, someone who will get them hitting a ruck like they mean it. Gawd know it wasn't happening last year with Bresie out and Manu crocked most of the season

I see SHC working well behind a go-forward pack, at times he was forcing it last year. Give him a few games with quick ball and he'll get back on form
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby biffer on Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:22 pm

I liked a quote from one of the interviews which said he'd like to think that against an Ospreys or a Munster, if we lose by say five points at home, that fans will walk away thinking 'well, it's not the result we wanted but the boys put absolutely everything into that, what an effort' which isn't the experience we've had in the last few years. He said that was how you build a culture at a club, through work and putting everything on the line for your teammates.

I also agree with Frazier for captain. I think he's absolutely Cockerill's kind of player.

Also, with SHC for me it's a bit of the problem that when the pack is going backwards he almost seems to think that it's not his problem so he doesn't try to salvage it. That's not the attitude, you wouldn't get Pienaar thinking that way.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby Martin Bell on Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:49 pm

Yes, while I see the ghost of Mr Williams in some of the things Jarvis says, I agree with those who think he is saying that these are guys who can but don't, rather than guys who can't. That is a different thing.

It's certainly challenging the squad, but I don't think any of them should see it as undermining them. If anything, they should take a lot of confidence from a new coach who sees a lot of potential in them. The ball is in their court.

Big Fraz would certainly set a storming example as skipper, but he's going to have to convince Jarvis that he is the top choice in his position, where we have a lot of quality.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby doedin on Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:20 pm

I have absolutely no problem with what he is saying! If we were a top 6 team then we would have been in the top 6! we were'nt.I have to say he is targeting all the right areas for me - the culture, the work ethic and sorting out the squad. They are pro players so their working week should be based around what is required to play and train regardless of what day of the week it is. If Sunday training is required then so be it. If they arrive late then fine them, if they don't clean up behind themselves then fine them, if they don't put the effort in at training then release them! I suspect he has found what many of us suspected which was a less than professional approach to the whole set up. We have all complained about our inability to play for 80mins, it often seemed the team struggled to get up for a whole game and we either lost a game in the first half then came back strong but valiantly failed or else got a lead then disappeared in the second half. We need 80 min of effort, they should at least be fit enough to do that this season! He has also dealt with the squad in terms of recruiting better quality of backs and also dispensed with a few who looked like they were here for the beer money. I have never seen a less disinterested player than Scholes last season.

I dont disagree that it is going to take a few more seasons to sort things out. However at least he has recognised that he has inherited a below par performing squad with a lot of talent in the pack and a few stars and potential stars in the backs. He will need to see if he can bring the likes of SHC an Weir back to form and hope to get Fruean and Bennet on the pitch at the same time. He also needs to support Kinghorn,Bryce and Hoyland and hope his new wingers are up to scratch. However he has a decent basis on which to work.

Lastly I really like the changes to the coaching team, the likes of Roddy and McRae will bring something different to the squad and most of all develop the winning culture Cockerill is after.

Given the Lions Tour hangover I think we could snatch a top 3 in our league. AlainRolland I need to go and lie down again and have another stiff G&T.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby biffer on Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:42 pm

The problem with the 'we have a lot of quality in that position' line is that they haven't been demonstrating it. I'd rather have someone of slightly less quality who always puts everything on the line than someone of slightly better quality who doesn't.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:15 pm

biffer wrote:The problem with the 'we have a lot of quality in that position' line is that they haven't been demonstrating it. I'd rather have someone of slightly less quality who always puts everything on the line than someone of slightly better quality who doesn't.


To be fair, I don't think many can argue Toolis didn't show it, or Bresler when not crocked and a lot is projection with Carmichael and Hunter-Hill at this point obviously but from watching Carmichael at the Force and Hunter-Hill with the 20s I don't think either are shirkers. I am sometimes disappointed by Gilchrist though. But at present I don't think McKenzie is a viable captain as second row we have players who don't shirk and at least 2 are better than McKenzie.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:23 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... g_share_tw

Unlike Robinson, who could be horribly thin-skinned, there is a palpable mental resilience and openness to Cockerill, not to mention a sense of a man who is prepared to throw himself in at the deep end. The Midlander constantly talks about fronting up, and unlike Robinson has moved his family north.

“The whole family has moved, lock-stock and barrel,” he said. “That’s important to me and the family because I’m going to ask a lot of the players so I’m doing exactly the same. The kids have moved school and the wife has left the job which she likes – so I had better make it work.”


Made me chuckle, quite surprised that Robbo didn't move north.

“I want players to roll their sleeves up, grit their teeth, and get into the middle of it, so the people who come to watch can see that Darcy Graham cares, Blair Kinghorn cares, Ben Toolis is in the middle of the fight, and Ross Ford is leading the charge.


Ross Ford captain? Graham is getting a few mentions from Cockers, wouldn't be surprised to see a lot from him this year.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby GaryIPA on Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:49 pm

Thanks for the link.

I liked this

"Because, actually, that is what we identify with; that’s what we cheer about. People keep telling me the Edinburgh crowd is really quiet, well I’m not bloody surprised – we’ve given them absolutely nothing to cheer about.”
'The slap is immense'

"this is not soccer"
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby dolf_lundgren on Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:47 am

I agree atmospehere is not one dimensional.

However even when winnign I would say the Edinburgh crowd takes a long time to warm up. A sustained period of competitiveness and a winning habit will hopefully bring it on.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby Crichton Gunner on Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:10 am

It would be nice to be in a position to find out if this is the case
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby The Feral Goat on Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:56 pm

Another decent interview with Cockerill, this on the Pro14 site, much of it same as before but one point that stood out.

“I’m here for the long term, I’m signed for two years but this project is probably four or five or six years and I don’t see any reason why that can’t work for me.”


http://www.pro14rugby.org/2017/09/13/ed ... long-term/
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