Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby Wottie on Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:06 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:Not sure about the claim we've never finished higher than eighth though ... Is that a technicality as our second placed finish was in the Celtic League?


Here is the past league positions from Wikipedia, including the "Golden Era" of 2005 to 2010 (followed by the Heineken Cup run to the semi in 2011). With apologies for formatting!

Celtic League/Pro12

Season Position Games Played

2001–02 Pools 6
2002–03 QFs 8
2003–04 10th 22
2004–05 7th 20
2005–06 5th 20
2006–07 8th 20
2007–08 4th 18
2008–09 2nd 18
2009–10 6th 18
2010–11 8th 22
2011–12 11th 22
2012–13 10th 22
2013–14 8th 22
2014–15 8th 22
2015–16 9th 22
2016-17 10th? 22
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby biffer on Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:27 pm

GaryIPA wrote:And hes moving his whole family here


Having moved back her after living in the midlands for two years, I can fully understand that.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby dolf_lundgren on Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:53 pm

Recruitment is my concern. The players he will know well are likely to be based in England and France, which makes it hard to get them unless we pay a lot of money. The value is usually in the Southern Hem. The likes of Struass and CDP. Although Solly got as many wrong as right.

I like the fact he took a risk with Ellis Genge and got him sorted out, that sort of signing may be an option for us
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby biffer on Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:06 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:Recruitment is my concern. The players he will know well are likely to be based in England and France, which makes it hard to get them unless we pay a lot of money. The value is usually in the Southern Hem. The likes of Struass and CDP. Although Solly got as many wrong as right.

I like the fact he took a risk with Ellis Genge and got him sorted out, that sort of signing may be an option for us


Sorry, but you're obviously not looking at his recruitment history. He's more used to finding guys who play for low end teams and making something of them. Thomas Waldrom was hardly a big name when he arrived, having got 30 appearances for the crusaders over four seasons before being bumped by them and playing in the itm cup. Thompstone came from London Irish, Williams from Worcester, Genge from Bristol, Rizzo from Treviso, Barrow from the Falcons, Kitchener from Worcester, Slater from Nottingham, McCaffrey from London Welsh, etc. No one else would touch Matthew Tait before he was rehabbed by Leicester. He's not got a record of going and recruiting top players, he's got a record of signing guys who will do a job for him and getting them to do that job to the best of their ability. He's also used a fair number of academy lads and developed them into internationals, and he's done this consistently over a number of years.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby Crichton Gunner on Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:07 pm

At the risk of making platitudes, none of us know how this will turn out. I don't know much about him, but as a Leicester stalwart it's understandable why some people are concerned that he'll turn out to be Solly mark 2. In that respect, I thought the following passage was one of the most interesting in the Telegraph article...

"“The whole dressing-room stuff is just not true. I know there is a pantomime villain feel to some of it but I wouldn’t have survived as long as I did if all I ever did was bollock people. I do have a competitive edge and I do like to project that. But I also like to think that I have an intelligent and articulate perspective on rugby too. Whatever I may look like, I am not some old dinosaur."

I hope this turns out to be the case. There are a number of similarities with the circumstances in which Andy Robinson came to Edinburgh, and that turned out pretty well for us. He doesn't seem short of motivation, has played and coached in a top-class rugby environment where winning matters, and is a man with something to prove. All positive signs.

In so many games we play we just get out-fought by the opposition; the recent Munster game was a classic example of this. You can't play winning rugby from this situation, even if you have really good backs. In brief spells during the Solly era it looked like we getting a set of forwards who could take it to the opposition and get them on the back foot, but we couldn't keep it up. This season it almost looks like we've accepted that we aren't going to win the arm-wrestle, with a predictable effect on results. If Cockerill can get us into a mindset where we don't accept being out-fought by the opposition, then I'll be happy and have no doubt that results will improve. Best of luck to him.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby dolf_lundgren on Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:36 pm

biffer wrote:
dolf_lundgren wrote:Recruitment is my concern. The players he will know well are likely to be based in England and France, which makes it hard to get them unless we pay a lot of money. The value is usually in the Southern Hem. The likes of Struass and CDP. Although Solly got as many wrong as right.

I like the fact he took a risk with Ellis Genge and got him sorted out, that sort of signing may be an option for us


Sorry, but you're obviously not looking at his recruitment history. He's more used to finding guys who play for low end teams and making something of them. Thomas Waldrom was hardly a big name when he arrived, having got 30 appearances for the crusaders over four seasons before being bumped by them and playing in the itm cup. Thompstone came from London Irish, Williams from Worcester, Genge from Bristol, Rizzo from Treviso, Barrow from the Falcons, Kitchener from Worcester, Slater from Nottingham, McCaffrey from London Welsh, etc. No one else would touch Matthew Tait before he was rehabbed by Leicester. He's not got a record of going and recruiting top players, he's got a record of signing guys who will do a job for him and getting them to do that job to the best of their ability. He's also used a fair number of academy lads and developed them into internationals, and he's done this consistently over a number of years.


No need to apologise, I was obviously making assumptions.

To be honest it is his attempts to buy success which have gone wrong. So Genge type is his MO? I like that.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:24 pm

Ayton1keith wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:Here's a Torygraph exclusive with Cockerill about Edinburgh: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... um=twitter


Certainly talking the talk in that interview. I can see parallels with when Dean Richards took over at Newcastle. Two teams who were definitely under performing. Richards came into Newcastle,brought in some experience season on season and integrated the youngsters from their academy. They have improved slowly season on season since then and on a smallish budget compared to other clubs and are now vying for top 6 and possibly top 4 this season.
There isn't going to be an overnight fix when Cockerill takes over but with a bit of planning and development this could well be a project that might just pay dividends.

A previous poster asked about any Leicester players out of contract, not sure if out of contract but here would be my choice of Captain Tom Croft if injury free. Thoughts


Tom Croft signed a two year deal in 2015 so would be available. it's a very interesting idea as he is a leader who has been there and done it so can bring through Bradbury, Miller, Ritchie, Crosbie and push du Preez for a starting spot. But it's a big gamble on a perma crock who can still demand a fair bit of money, he's 31 so might think he can get more England caps as well. Also, back row is a position with a lot of young Scots so could stall the development?

I'm not sure, fostering a leadership group is a big challenge for Cockerill and company next year.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby biffer on Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:27 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:
biffer wrote:
dolf_lundgren wrote:Recruitment is my concern. The players he will know well are likely to be based in England and France, which makes it hard to get them unless we pay a lot of money. The value is usually in the Southern Hem. The likes of Struass and CDP. Although Solly got as many wrong as right.

I like the fact he took a risk with Ellis Genge and got him sorted out, that sort of signing may be an option for us


Sorry, but you're obviously not looking at his recruitment history. He's more used to finding guys who play for low end teams and making something of them. Thomas Waldrom was hardly a big name when he arrived, having got 30 appearances for the crusaders over four seasons before being bumped by them and playing in the itm cup. Thompstone came from London Irish, Williams from Worcester, Genge from Bristol, Rizzo from Treviso, Barrow from the Falcons, Kitchener from Worcester, Slater from Nottingham, McCaffrey from London Welsh, etc. No one else would touch Matthew Tait before he was rehabbed by Leicester. He's not got a record of going and recruiting top players, he's got a record of signing guys who will do a job for him and getting them to do that job to the best of their ability. He's also used a fair number of academy lads and developed them into internationals, and he's done this consistently over a number of years.


No need to apologise, I was obviously making assumptions.

To be honest it is his attempts to buy success which have gone wrong. So Genge type is his MO? I like that.


Yeah, that's pretty much it exactly. His big money stuff has gone wrong, and let's be honest, he's not going to get the opportunity to repeat that mistake with us!
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:38 pm

Tuilagi should come up to Edinburgh once he gets his fitness concerns sorted.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:44 pm

Scott Johnson will be in charge of recruitment and not Cockerill though. So whilst Cockers will have a say he will not have the final say. So I don't think we'll see a departure from the current recruitment blueprint of SQ guys not getting much game time elsewhere, punts who might one day qualify on residency or depth players from other Pro12 teams.

I would like us to look in the English Championship for players a bit more as there's good value there, Sarries often sign players from the Championship who turn out very well indeed like Duncan Taylor. Johnson, Solomons and Townsend don't really have an English connection though so I understand why we spend more time looking in the Southern Hemisphere so would be useful if Cockers had some contacts who know the league.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby djphilp on Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:46 pm

Tichtheid wrote:Tuilagi should come up to Edinburgh once he gets his fitness concerns sorted.


Now a Tuilagi/Bennett midfield would be mouth-wateringly good :wink:
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby Wottie on Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:21 pm

djphilp wrote:
Tichtheid wrote:Tuilagi should come up to Edinburgh once he gets his fitness concerns sorted.


Now a Tuilagi/Bennett midfield would be mouth-wateringly good :wink:


I think Tichtheid had something more along the lines of deputising for Nel at TH in mind!
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby dolf_lundgren on Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:27 pm

Tichtheid wrote:Tuilagi should come up to Edinburgh once he gets his fitness concerns sorted.


Poor mans Tofilau, a no from me.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby currie_gregor on Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:42 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:Scott Johnson will be in charge of recruitment and not Cockerill though.


Interesting to see RC mention SJ by name on the SRU website...not sure what to make of it...

Richard Cockerill said: “I am very much looking forward to a new challenge and the opportunity at Edinburgh Rugby ticked all the boxes.

"It’s a real rugby city, and the club has a lot of potential to grow on, and off, the pitch.

"The conversations I had with Mark Dodson and Scott Johnson were instrumental in understanding what the vision for Edinburgh Rugby is and it is a project I’m excited to be a part of.
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Re: Richard Cockerill confirmed as HC

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:10 am

currie_gregor wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:Scott Johnson will be in charge of recruitment and not Cockerill though.


Interesting to see RC mention SJ by name on the SRU website...not sure what to make of it...

Richard Cockerill said: “I am very much looking forward to a new challenge and the opportunity at Edinburgh Rugby ticked all the boxes.

"It’s a real rugby city, and the club has a lot of potential to grow on, and off, the pitch.

"The conversations I had with Mark Dodson and Scott Johnson were instrumental in understanding what the vision for Edinburgh Rugby is and it is a project I’m excited to be a part of.


I'd guess it's because Scott Johnson is now Cockerill's boss and will probably have been the SRU employee who reached out to Cockerill to discuss the plan the SRU have for Edinburgh and where he fits. The Glasgow players who re-sign often mention Johnson by name as well. I'm never sure if it's because Johnson is doing a good job in convincing them or Johnson trying to get the Scottish rugby public to think he's doing something so gets the PR guy to include his name in releases.

On a side note, I was heartened to see Cockers mention Edinburgh is a rugby city, I really believe with the amount of rugby clubs and schools we have the interest is there and just need a coach to harness that support, although I think if we start winning the crowds will return whoever is in charge.
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