Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby Oldsalt on Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:34 am

ps personal attacks should be left to the children and wums on the BBC.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby Tichtheid on Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:37 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Tichtheid wrote:We have had a coaching problem, Johnson has said that we were left listing on an open sea, but now the SRU have turned their attention to us.
But it's not true that we haven't developed players in the way you said, anyone would think from that that we had no one of any use whatsoever other than Nel and the ex Glasgow boys or anyone who has been brought in.

I expect things to get better with a coach with a heck of a CV like Cockers'


That's not what I said though, I think we have a lot of good players and a hell of a lot of promising young guys breaking through. But who are the players we've brought through who are now in their prime and ready to challenge in the Pro12? Watson, Toolis, Ford and du Preez? Our recruitment has brought some great players like Dickinson coming back, Nel coming over, Hardie, Bresler who would be ideally supplements to a homegrown talent whilst also bringing in the next generation.



You asked where are the players that we've brought through, I listed a dozen young guys, plus Rambo who is an old head at 26. Of that dozen I think Dean is the only one who is still a doubt as to whether or not he can make a difference at pro 12 level. Add in Nel, Dickinson, Dell, yes Bergs too now, Ford, CDP, Manu (if he gets a break from being broken), if we ever get on the front foot Mata will be a devastating player in the league, akin to what Nakarawa did for Glasgow. Fraz is better than most teams fourth choice lock, we need Bresler back. Who knows where Gilcho put his form, but on his history he was certainly worth keeping on with, it's two years since our best national coach for decades named him Scotland captain, those two years have been dreadful for Grant, but he is still young at 26. I'm hopeful that Cockerill will get the best out of him and the rest of the pack especially because that is where our strength lies.

If, and yes it's an if, Cockers gets that pack playing to its potential the scrum halfs will suddenly look a lot better. I can't decide between Tovey and Weir, I like Tovey's ability to take a flat ball and beat the first up defender.
Bennett will bring some real pace, the other promising backs have been mentioned already.

As for the others, they've only ever shown up in flashes, Allen, Helu, Bryce have looked ace for a couple of moves and scored tries, but they've been living off scraps - I'm not excusing that btw, good players can thrive off scraps.
We haven't really seen Northam, but a 'Tahs fan was hoping he'd come back to them after France, he has serious pace so he might be worth a proper look when he gets back to full fitness.
I wasn't much impressed with Scholes, same as others have said, but he is highly rated by a couple of Ulster fans I know, again he might be worth a chance, he took his tries well enough last week.

Tofilau has been a disappointment, I had high hopes for him, does anyone know how is he doing at club level?
Same goes for Rasolea

Johnson has said we are due for a bit of refurbishment, we certainly need some quality across the backline, but I doubt we'll be buying much in. I haven't been following the U20s due to time constraints, is there anyone looking promising?
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby bignose on Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:07 pm

Tichtheid wrote:Johnson has said we are due for a bit of refurbishment, we certainly need some quality across the backline, but I doubt we'll be buying much in. I haven't been following the U20s due to time constraints, is there anyone looking promising?


Not on last Friday night's form.. :(
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby biffer on Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:36 pm

bignose wrote:
Tichtheid wrote:Johnson has said we are due for a bit of refurbishment, we certainly need some quality across the backline, but I doubt we'll be buying much in. I haven't been following the U20s due to time constraints, is there anyone looking promising?


Not on last Friday night's form.. :(


Darcy Graham already signed from that level. Others might be the boys down at London Scottish.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby royc on Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:40 pm

joe soap wrote:
Edinburgh are not entitled to anything; pro rugby consists of virtuous circles of some, vicious circles for others and treading water for the rest in between. Even with unlimited budgets it is hard to move between these, very hard. If it was as easy as you think (and you do think it is) I think othrs would have solved the problem earlier. Edinburgh dropped into the vicious circle set, it is going to continue to be very challenging to get out of it, much harder than armchair experts could ever comprehend.


I agree. At first glance, Embra looks like a Rubik cube with a couple of missing pieces, so no matter which bit you twist, it never comes out right!

I don't think solving the puzzle is actually all that intrinsically difficult. You need three main things IMO:

A good enough squad of players with a few go-to men in key positions. The squad is not that far off but there are a few deficiencies at the moment, more in the backs than the forwards. If Bennett's signing is followed by 3 more good/shrewd buys - a top-notch scrum half, a bigger, heavier strike winger and a good back-up 13, to add to the talents of Kinghorn, Hoyland, Brown, Weir, Burleigh, etc.,then you have the makings of a pretty competitive back division, which ER does not really have just now. The budget?... will be near enough available due to some of the higher earners likely moving on.

A better coaching set-up. The defence has been pretty dire, both the systems and the execution. The backs don't seem to have very much in their repertoire or any clear game plan and their skill levels seem to be regressing in some cases, when you'd expect them to be improving with good coaching. The pack, albeit without key players in the front row, has lost some of its oomph and drive. In the army, 'there are no bad soldiers, only bad officers' and I think that maxim applies here. Cockerill is inheriting a trio of coaches and it would have been better if he had been able to bring in his own crew. But we are where we are, he is going to have to get a lot more out of his three assistants or it may have to be my way or the highway. It is good that Hodge can now concentrate on the backs, as I suspect the rigours of being head coach have limited the attention he can give them.

A no-nonsense coach who has both the technical skills and the ability to motivate/drive the players in a way that seems to be missing just now. While Cockerill wasn't my first choice (by some way!), I was heartened by reading his BBC interview, he sounds like he knows pretty much what needs done and seems to relish it as a challenge. Particularly like the line that there would need to be 'some robust conversations' with SJ and Dodson, I think he's got a clear fix on things already! Anyways, I think we all need to get behind him with our fingers crossed.

If these three building bricks all fall into place, things could suddenly look a good bit rosier.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby bignose on Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:14 pm

biffer wrote:
bignose wrote:
Tichtheid wrote:Johnson has said we are due for a bit of refurbishment, we certainly need some quality across the backline, but I doubt we'll be buying much in. I haven't been following the U20s due to time constraints, is there anyone looking promising?


Not on last Friday night's form.. :(


Darcy Graham already signed from that level. Others might be the boys down at London Scottish.


Regardless of your thoughts on the "If you're good enough, you're big enough" debate, he's going to need to eat a lot of pies over the next couple of years.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby biffer on Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:36 pm

bignose wrote:
biffer wrote:
bignose wrote:
Not on last Friday night's form.. :(


Darcy Graham already signed from that level. Others might be the boys down at London Scottish.


Regardless of your thoughts on the "If you're good enough, you're big enough" debate, he's going to need to eat a lot of pies over the next couple of years.


I personally can coach him on that.
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:37 pm

biffer wrote:
bignose wrote:
Tichtheid wrote:Johnson has said we are due for a bit of refurbishment, we certainly need some quality across the backline, but I doubt we'll be buying much in. I haven't been following the U20s due to time constraints, is there anyone looking promising?


Not on last Friday night's form.. :(


Darcy Graham already signed from that level. Others might be the boys down at London Scottish.


Graham is the only Edinburgh aligned player that's looked good - the others are weegies but it's not looking like a good year for our under 20s and with the Italians going well it could be a wooden spoon.

Ideally Miller, Fraser, Galbraith and Robbins will be ready to compete for a spot next year but I'm not sure how they're getting on and I think Fraser is injured.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby OldTomMorris on Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:09 pm

"Tofilau has been a disappointment, I had high hopes for him, does anyone know how is he doing at club level?
Same goes for Rasolea"

Here is Sasa's Clips video....hopefully this answers what hes been up to at Gala.

https://youtu.be/jWeAI53UEzc
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