Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby Pitfitter on Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:29 pm

Started ok, but then somebody mislaid the plan and it went to pot, kicking the ball and not chasing it up just gives away possession, better to hang on to it and grind away looking for an opportunity to run, it might make better viewing because all I hear around me is threats of people staying at home.
Have we a set of clones that play Euro cup games and leave the league to another set that are seconds? Same coaches and players but totally different outcomes.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby Wottie on Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:01 pm

Weegie wrote:
The Feral Goat wrote:Got a season ticket but motivation to use it is dwindling, how many at the game last night?


There were only 4 in the row we were in, and no one at all in the row in front. Main stand just about on half way, in other words long term season ticket holders not turning up in droves.


Yep, I confess, early KO coupled with the weather had me heading home from the office to watch on TV. If I could have looked forward to some back play like we got from Scotland today, I would have rocked up late I'm sure!!
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby Le Jock Sportif on Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:35 am

Event rugby
I'm only responsible for what I say, not what you understand.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:53 am

Wottie wrote:
Weegie wrote:
The Feral Goat wrote:Got a season ticket but motivation to use it is dwindling, how many at the game last night?


There were only 4 in the row we were in, and no one at all in the row in front. Main stand just about on half way, in other words long term season ticket holders not turning up in droves.


Yep, I confess, early KO coupled with the weather had me heading home from the office to watch on TV. If I could have looked forward to some back play like we got from Scotland today, I would have rocked up late I'm sure!!


To watch Hamish Watson maraude around Myreside is worth the the price of admission in itself!

In all seriousness we won't see attack like that because Russell and Hogg are two of the finest playmakers in the NH. But I am worried about coaching again, how is it here Visser was just a deadly finisher but now he looks an all round rugby player? I really think we need a clear out of our coaching staff.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby Pitfitter on Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:41 pm

Seems the early kick off was just to give us more time in the pub to have a consolation dram or so, and by kings did we need it.!
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby adi1314 on Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:03 pm

Coaching looked weak around replacements, with Bradbury hobbling about and others looking knackered, why wasn't Gilchrist (captain & ex-Scotland captain) brought on earlier for leadership & freshness? Why wasn't Turner who had made a try out of nothing the week before brought on? Appiah for Cosgrove (who looked pooped)? The team looked tired but the bench was half-full.

Why didn't Tovey attempt a drop at the end? Rather than hope for a penalty, which clearly the ref didn't seem to keen on giving. Very frustrating BUT very Edinburgh!!

Another re-building period I'm afraid.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:34 pm

But I am worried about coaching again, how is it here Visser was just a deadly finisher but now he looks an all round rugby player? I really think we need a clear out of our coaching staff.


At Edinburgh Vissers defensive positioning or aerial ability was the least of the coaches issues, if everything else was working well then they could have invested time on improving individuals however we consistently have squad wide set piece/defence/attack/system/attitude/take your pick/all of those mentioned issues that need fixed before any single players shortcomings.

I agree that we need all the coaching staff cleared out but I don't see it happening. I believe the Sunday Times this week noted that 7 SRU coaches working alongside or reporting do Scott Johnson have the same agent as Scott Johnson so they either keep their job or get a meaty pay off in which case we cannot afford quality replacements unless we sacrifice keeping players.

Was not 100% on Cockerills appointment but the more SteveWalsh I have to watch from ER the more I am warming to his appointment, we are just pish at present.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:44 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:
At Edinburgh Vissers defensive positioning or aerial ability was the least of the coaches issues, if everything else was working well then they could have invested time on improving individuals however we consistently have squad wide set piece/defence/attack/system/attitude/take your pick/all of those mentioned issues that need fixed before any single players shortcomings.

I agree that we need all the coaching staff cleared out but I don't see it happening. I believe the Sunday Times this week noted that 7 SRU coaches working alongside or reporting do Scott Johnson have the same agent as Scott Johnson so they either keep their job or get a meaty pay off in which case we cannot afford quality replacements unless we sacrifice keeping players.

Was not 100% on Cockerills appointment but the more SteveWalsh I have to watch from ER the more I am warming to his appointment, we are just pish at present.


But surely we had a skills coach who worked with individuals on an area of weakness in their game?

The SRU just don't want to pay out three years of coaches wages I guess.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:49 pm

I don't know if we have a skills coach, we have a defence coach hard as that is to believe at times perhaps individuals defence falls under their remit.

As you said ideally they are all gone and Cockerill has a clean slate to start with.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:06 pm

He wouldn't be allowed to bring in his own men - Toonie was only allowed that after winning the Pro12!

But it would've been nice to bring in men who know and love the club to help build the identity Cockerill wants to create like Blair and Roddy Grant. Then you'll have guys like Richie Gray and the Scotland staff to call on if anything specific is required as well.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby doedin on Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:52 pm

joe soap wrote:
doedin wrote:Tovey is SteveWalsh and was the Dragons 3rd choice 10 before we signed him and we saw tonight why that was the case.


you have been told many times that he was frozen out at Dragons because of nepotism. He has enough problems without spinning it to suit your poorly informed agenda. It does get a bit tiresome reading you write every comment about a player based on an opinion you have formed before he gets here. If you had decided he was rubbish, he will always be rubbish and any good performance is down to something else. If you have decided he is good, he is excused every bit of excremental play. Tiresome. You have some good comments to make if you stick to what you see rather than your preconceptions.
Tovey can be good enough behind a dominant pack but what we did know before he came here - he is flaky under pressure. And he is often less than brave. The "injuries" (which he quickly recovered from) after making errors - one a bad kick - were enough to see him out the door.

Until last night I thought it was all poor coaching and mental weakness. It is but last night also looked like a fitness issue. Or maybe just mental fatigue. Going to take some fixing whatever it is


Having watched the game again I don't think I need to respond in detail but to just refer you to the match. He also lies too deep and his decision making is poor. Occasionally makes the odd break granted but too rarely and doesn’t compensate for his failings. He is what he is and that aint good enough for us!
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby joe soap on Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:42 pm

doedin wrote:Having watched the game again I don't think I need to respond in detail but to just refer you to the match. He also lies too deep and his decision making is poor. Occasionally makes the odd break granted but too rarely and doesn’t compensate for his failings. He is what he is and that aint good enough for us!


lets be clear. I have no problem with you watching a game or repeated games and deciding that in your opinion a player is good bad or very bad. I do have an issue with anyone deciding that a player is good bad or indifferent based on limited knowledge of that player and repeating "facts" that you want to believe; , or just deciding that any player who did not star for some other team then automatically they will be rubbish for Edinburgh.
Similarly your attachment to Weir (who is a good 10) is laughable when he has a poor game or poor spell in a match - its all about only seeing what supports your opinion before he got here.
That is how it looks and you do it repeatedly.

Just as well the weegies don't have your approach or they would not have signed Seymour.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby doedin on Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:34 pm

Lets agree to disagree here!

I have watched Pro12 rugby in its various guises since its inception. I have seen Tovey on numerous occasions when he was with Dragons and then with Embra. He is what he is and my assessment of him is based on what I have seen live and on the tv. He struggled in a poor Dragons team for any number of years and he is performing at exactly the same level for us. The Dragons decided to go with some younger guys at 10 who have a bit more about them, I'm not sure about the nepotism issue because from what I have seen they are just better players than Tovey.

I have also seen Weir on any number of occasions who is in my opinion immeasurable better than Tovey and instead of fading when under pressure steps up to the mark, tries to control a game and puts his body on the line. He doesn’t hide when things are going badly! Weir has played at a far higher level than Tovey and it shows but understandably couldn't get a game at the Weegies because of Russell and to a lesser extent Horne. Weir controls is backline and a game, has as good a boot as Tovey but more importantly lies flatter and is a better decision maker. He can also defend whereas Tovey is pretty flakey in defence. Weir is our future and will be the best 10 we will likely have for a few years, unless they decide to give Kinghorn a go at 10 in the foreseeable future. Put a decent 12 outside him and when Bennet comes in I suspect we will get a lot more out of him than we do now.

The problem with Embra and some of its supporters is that it is happy to accept mediocrity, its why we are 9th in the league and miles away from a top 6 place. I'm sorry if you don't like my assessment of some of our squad but I call it as I see it. I have seen enough of Tovey over the years to think his weaknesses outweigh his strengths in the same way that I have seen enough of Weir to think he is going to be a good 10 for us.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby joe soap on Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:19 pm

"The problem with Embra and some of its supporters is that it is happy to accept mediocrity, "


what utter utter rubbish. Yeah Edinburgh and the SRU are happy with all this rubbish and have the full backing of some of the support to keep it like that. Utter utter rubbish. Some do make excuses but that is not the same as supporting and being happy with mediocre performances. except you have decided to stick them in another little pigeon hole you had ready.

If you had watched all that rugby you would have seen Tovey win matches; and lose them. And you would know about the nepotism - follow Welsh rugby and you will not find a Welsh fan who supported the decision to let Tovey go, failings and all, in favour of their coaches' boys.

I am not a fan of Tovey, he has proved to be flaky here, but players can and do change. You wer ot willing to do that and clearly are only interested in proving you were right. I gave him a clean sheet and even with his flakies he was a step up form what Edinburgh had previously. You would have crucified Edinburgh had they signed some failure at Ulster who couldn't get a game there, so no Seymour. You did he same with Scholes, and yet when he score 2 excellent tries instead of well done, you had a go at his motivation. Not as well as, instead of. Because Scholes doing well didn't suit your agenda.

Tiresome and predictable.
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Re: Edinburgh v Cardiff 24/2/17

Postby doedin on Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:37 am

I agree that Tovey was a step up from what we had at 10 before he came, however that doesn’t mean he was up to the standard required! He isn't! You are also right in that I don't follow Welsh rugby closely enough to listen to all the jamesmatthew about nepotism being the reason for his departure. However I saw his replacement outplay Tovey when we played them down there in November.

Scholes is an interesting one! I watched him play in pre season game and he was awful, wandered around the pitch and ‘avoided’ a tackle. He then disappeared from team selection and when he did appear he was not much better, there didnt appear to be any motivation. I expected a lot more from him given his past with Ulster despite not being sure why we signed him given the obvious gaps elsewhere in the squad. It may have been coincidence but I also think it is fair to ask why he was able to play so much better just at the same time our new coach for next season appeared on the touchline? He has been a major disappointment so far bar the game last week. Its not my ‘agenda’.

If you disagree with my assessment of players then come up with alternative argument, however you seem to agree with my assessment of Tovey? I just don't understand where you are going with your Seymour example, just seems a load of tosh to me! Scholes? I have stated my position about him above, and yes I do question his motivation given what I have seen this season.

There are lots on here who do accept mediocrity by continuing to defend players in the squad who are quite clearly never going to get us into a top 6 position. We need to set the standards higher than we have in the past!
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