Edinburgh v Connacht 19:35KO 7 APril

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Re: Edinburgh v Connacht 19:35KO 7 APril

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:24 am

I don’t think Rasolea has had that much opportunity to prove himself, I thought he looked decent in pre-season ran some good lines etc but I suspect he does not fit the style of play Hodge has been aiming for and may have had more opportunity if Solomons had remained HC. He has never had a decent run of games to try and show what he can do. Also our Super rugby signings have almost always looked better 2nd season as well after a decent rest and pre-season, he is under contract and will be here next season so we may see more of him.
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Re: Edinburgh v Connacht 19:35KO 7 APril

Postby joe soap on Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:36 pm

Oldsalt wrote:FKL just how often has Rasolea or any of the other invisible backs "played" a lot of rugby this season. Conceding 50+ try's is not indicative of a good defence.


the question is a fair one. The answer may be less clear and obvious.

Coach sees far more than fans do, from post match analysis to practice and training. There can be many reasons why players do not feature while we as fans think from the odd bit we see live or from youtube that a player should feature more (and if anyone has specifically seen loads more of Rasolea apols).

what is indisputable is that the defence is farcical at times. whether its individual technique or positioning, or just poor structure. Or as seems likely a mixture (players not good enough and defence coaching AWOL) - which in turn means no quick fix silver bullet. Again.

and again the lack of on field leaders to see issues and get others to respond is he biggest hole in the defence every match
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Re: Edinburgh v Connacht 19:35KO 7 APril

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:12 pm

While there have been the odd individual technique fail (eg Kinghorn v LaRochelle) for me the defensive system is a total mess, it is not even clear when watching on TV what the back line should be doing, it looks even more iffy during phase play when there are forwards in the line. We have been saved by good scramble defence or on the line defence a few times but that is just body on the line stuff no real defensive strategy. With the system not working players are missing tackles because they are not in the right position or clear in their role. Queensland had SteveWalsh defence when Wilkins was there and now we have SteveWalsh defence while Wilkins is here, P45.

What I would say about Friday is we only conceded one try, and Bryce from full back was pretty vocal trying to get folk in position, defensive communication is not something I have been aware of generally this season maybe I was just closer to the action and could hear.

Attacking systems are not much better, we had a midfield scrum at one point where (I think) Scholes and Bryce lined up directly behind the scrum but as soon as the ball was fed in they both ran right and were in position waiting for the ball to come out the scrum, surely the ball should be at the number 8s feet before they make a move, there was zero deception in it may have well just lined up as normal.

Other times it looks like the backs are running different plays and we find either the winger getting the ball with no space or they are not where the centre thought he was going to be, with the team so low on confidence, an inability to think and adapt to what is in front of them and poor basic skills the ball is dropped, a pass forced or player isolated and turned over. And yet after an hour of total clueless pish suddenly we somehow score 3 tries, perhaps just the chaos confusing the opposition?

As noted in Cockerills interview there is big upside potential at Edinburgh, with good coaching and good attitude we should be able to improve significantly whether Cockerill can do that with the coaches he inherits for next year remains a big question mark.
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Re: Edinburgh v Connacht 19:35KO 7 APril

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:47 pm

Oldsalt wrote:FKL just how often has Rasolea or any of the other invisible backs "played" a lot of rugby this season. Conceding 50+ try's is not indicative of a good defence.


I didn't say we had a good defence, I just remember Rasolea having a fair few individual defensive errors. In attack he is a lump but not powerful, shows no evidence of agility and I've never thought his distribution was good either - he's just terrible and came here as he was dumped by the worst Aussie team which sums it up really. The official website says he's played 8 games which is significant game time.
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Re: Edinburgh v Connacht 19:35KO 7 APril

Postby djphilp on Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:19 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:The official website says he's played 8 games which is significant game time.



There is a significant difference between having played IN 8 games and having played 8 FULL games. I suspect the stat you are quoting from the official website (known for its inaccuracies btw) would be the former rather than the latter. :)

I've personally not seen enough of him to write him off, but seeing as none of our team are shining at present I don't know if we should be writing anyone off until the new coach has had a chance to light a fire under them and see whether they have what it takes to survive. My only hope is that it isn't just the players that get this treatment although I suspect it will be. :roll:
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Re: Edinburgh v Connacht 19:35KO 7 APril

Postby biffer on Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:01 am

On a quick scan I can see 415 minutes in 7 games, so a healthy amount of minutes per game.
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Edinburgh v Connacht 19:35KO 7 APril

Postby dolf_lundgren on Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:15 am

One thing Hodge has done is settle on a first choice backline. I dont think Solly really managed that. He had a few injuries to contend with but particularly in the centre he chopped around with Allan, Helu, Dean, Burleigh an Tofilau. Similarly at 9 I couldn't tell you who Solly favoured, it was any one of three.

I think all the centres are fine as backup but we really need to add more quality, Bureligh has gone back and now tih Bennet out we still have a lot of work to do to fill that gap. I hope we have enough in the budget to do it
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Re: Edinburgh v Connacht 19:35KO 7 APril

Postby germain on Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:59 am

dolf_lundgren wrote:One thing Hodge has done is settle on a first choice backline. I dont think Solly really managed that. He had a few injuries to contend with but particularly in the centre he chopped around with Allan, Helu, Dean, Burleigh an Tofilau. Similarly at 9 I couldn't tell you who Solly favoured, it was any one of three.


When yo recall Solomon's three years here, you can say that he clearly favoured Hidalgo-Clyne. At least before Hodge came in...
Hodge and Solomons did not have the same game plan nor the same ideas at all. For the 9 spot, but also for the centre. Tofilau, Rasolea or Allan were Solomon's preferred options. We've not seen them a lot with Hodge...

That's why, if Cockerill was able to choose his assistants, it would be great.
Bradley's second season was awful, partly due to his discord with Back.
Solomon's last season (not this one, but the previous one) was hampered (in my opinion) by Hodge's arrival. I don't have many regrets for Omar Mouneimne, but you wonder why the only assistant really wanted by the Solomons was the only one to be sacked...
SRU have to learn their lessons: Assistant coaches must go well with the head coach, or it's just a waste of money.
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Re: Edinburgh v Connacht 19:35KO 7 APril

Postby bignose on Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:40 am

germain wrote:SRU have to learn their lessons: Assistant coaches must go well with the head coach, or it's just a waste of money.


Cockerill has recent experience of incompatibilities with assistant coaches
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Re: Edinburgh v Connacht 19:35KO 7 APril

Postby dolf_lundgren on Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:29 pm

To be fair that was a DOR and Head coach situation do a power struggle, Hodge will know he is not in charge any more. Still very hard to step back from being head to assistant. Also makes it harder to effect change in systems if the guy who told them to play that way is standing there. I just cant see how this can work.

With all the change arounds, O'Halloran coming to Edinburgh makes far more sense than Glasgow.
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Re: Edinburgh v Connacht 19:35KO 7 APril

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:42 pm

bignose wrote:
germain wrote:SRU have to learn their lessons: Assistant coaches must go well with the head coach, or it's just a waste of money.


Cockerill has recent experience of incompatibilities with assistant coaches


He picked Mauger though he wasn't given Mauger. Toonie did alright with the guys he was given - as did Cotter although unsurprisingly O'Halloran is better than Hodge.

If coaches change I'd want the young Scottish coaches like Grant, McRae, Dalziel, Lawrie, Blair etc who show promise to sit down with Cockers and talk vision for Edinburgh so he can pick from an SRU approved pool so it's the best of both worlds.
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Re: Edinburgh v Connacht 19:35KO 7 APril

Postby djphilp on Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:58 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:If coaches change I'd want the young Scottish coaches like Grant, McRae, Dalziel, Lawrie, Blair etc who show promise to sit down with Cockers and talk vision for Edinburgh so he can pick from an SRU approved pool so it's the best of both worlds.


This :above:
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Re: Edinburgh v Connacht 19:35KO 7 APril

Postby germain on Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:24 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:With all the change arounds, O'Halloran coming to Edinburgh makes far more sense than Glasgow.


Clearly.
I think with O'Halloran and Rennie, Glasgow have two great coaches. Maybe one in each scottish club would have been wiser.
You wonder why Johnson has always chosen coaches with forward orientated game plan for Edinburgh (Solomons then Cockerill). Does he want to build two different identities on this? If that is the case, I think it's a mistake. Everything is not Solomons' fault, but his tenure should have demonstrated that a very limited game plan is not our natural game. We must have strong forwards, but we're not like Munster. I bet Solomons would have flourished there...

Friday Knight Lights wrote:If coaches change I'd want the young Scottish coaches like Grant, McRae, Dalziel, Lawrie, Blair etc who show promise to sit down with Cockers and talk vision for Edinburgh so he can pick from an SRU approved pool so it's the best of both worlds.


Yeah, hopefully, Cockerill can start a new era, without Hodge, Wilkins and Scott who have been there for too long without doing much good. Chrystie is doing well with Melrose too.
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Re: Edinburgh v Connacht 19:35KO 7 APril

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:58 pm

germain wrote:
dolf_lundgren wrote:With all the change arounds, O'Halloran coming to Edinburgh makes far more sense than Glasgow.


Clearly.
I think with O'Halloran and Rennie, Glasgow have two great coaches. Maybe one in each scottish club would have been wiser.
You wonder why Johnson has always chosen coaches with forward orientated game plan for Edinburgh (Solomons then Cockerill). Does he want to build two different identities on this? If that is the case, I think it's a mistake. Everything is not Solomons' fault, but his tenure should have demonstrated that a very limited game plan is not our natural game. We must have strong forwards, but we're not like Munster. I bet Solomons would have flourished there...

Friday Knight Lights wrote:If coaches change I'd want the young Scottish coaches like Grant, McRae, Dalziel, Lawrie, Blair etc who show promise to sit down with Cockers and talk vision for Edinburgh so he can pick from an SRU approved pool so it's the best of both worlds.


Yeah, hopefully, Cockerill can start a new era, without Hodge, Wilkins and Scott who have been there for too long without doing much good. Chrystie is doing well with Melrose too.


Or because you build an expansive game plan from solid foundations? Lineen played very basic rugby before Toonie rocked up at Glasgow and left the team solid and in the right place to go forward. We didn't do well under Solomons because he is not a good coach and signed bad players. We won't build a castle on quicksand, you need solid foundations before you build the house.

I worry about Melrose and Ayr coaches as they are both the best teams in the Prem and always have been, is that not massively helped by their superior resources?
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Re: Edinburgh v Connacht 19:35KO 7 APril

Postby germain on Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:02 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Or because you build an expansive game plan from solid foundations? Lineen played very basic rugby before Toonie rocked up at Glasgow and left the team solid and in the right place to go forward. We didn't do well under Solomons because he is not a good coach and signed bad players. We won't build a castle on quicksand, you need solid foundations before you build the house.

I worry about Melrose and Ayr coaches as they are both the best teams in the Prem and always have been, is that not massively helped by their superior resources?


In fact, Solomons' era has been so difficult to watch that I don't want anything like that to happen again, even if it's for building foundations or whatever. I don't know what to expect with Cockerill but what I know is that I've never been fed up with rugby looking a team coached by Lineen as I've been with Solly.

Let's wait for Chrystie but if he wins something, he will have achieve something more than Dalziel. Your point could still be valid but it is more about Cairns who has not been able to reach any final yet. Is it due to Cairn's abilities or Currie's resources?
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