1872 cup - Is anyone still paying attention?

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Re: 1872 cup - Is anyone still paying attention?

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun May 07, 2017 1:05 am

disco wrote:Fair play to Edinburgh - earned that win through hard work and application. They're certainly not as poor a side as this season has made them out to be. But today's game has me questioning the mental strength and fortitude of Scottish rugby players.

On the Edinburgh side - where has that attitude been this season? The digging in and making the opposition work for every yard. The little shots and afters to throw the other side off their game. Why have, for example, SHC and Duncan Weir not been able to bring that focus and consistency to their distribution and game management during most of the other 28 games played by Edinburgh this season?

And on the Glasgow side a slightly different set of problems but again it comes down to resilience. Why has the level of play, the precision and accuracy required to make good decisions and execute skills under pressure - why has this dropped off towards the end of the campaign? It either started in the wake of achieving the long dreamt of goal of qualification for the Champions Cup quarters or possibly the Six Nations (and that game against England, the sort of result that doesn't happen to teams with real mental strength and a belief that they can win).

The issue for Townsend, Rennie and Cockerill is that if they want to see the 3 sides succeed and improve they're going to need players who can maintain the levels they're capable of week in, week out throughout a season. Currently there simply aren't enough Scottish players doing that.


You're preaching to the choir talking about mental fragility here disco, I think the win vs Dragons gave us a lot of confidence though.

For Glasgow's slump you just need to look at Toonie who said his aim was to get out the Champions Cup groups, when that was achieved the season completely went tits up and it doesn't seem a coincidence. The Glasgow team were poor today and considering Toonie was leaving, Lamont was retiring and many Glasgow players off too was very surprising. Do questions have to be asked of Gray's captaincy? He looks like he needs a rest.
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Re: 1872 cup - Is anyone still paying attention?

Postby joe soap on Sun May 07, 2017 1:07 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:Where's that been all season?! Typical.


indeed and indeed. Each and every retained player needs to be brought in next week and nit congratulated but asked that very question. It was a good and deserved win against the odds, but the difference was they were up for it, prepared to fight for every inch every second of the match.
Less is not acceptable. That must be made clear, "as long as we beat Glasgow" isn't good enough. That they played like that makes me angry as much as happy if that makes any sense
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Re: 1872 cup - Is anyone still paying attention?

Postby disco on Sun May 07, 2017 1:15 am

joe soap wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:Where's that been all season?! Typical.


indeed and indeed. Each and every retained player needs to be brought in next week and nit congratulated but asked that very question. It was a good and deserved win against the odds, but the difference was they were up for it, prepared to fight for every inch every second of the match.
Less is not acceptable. That must be made clear, "as long as we beat Glasgow" isn't good enough. That they played like that makes me angry as much as happy if that makes any sense

I'm going to imagine Cockerills's response to that sort of performance would be to invite each player in at the start of next season and suggest that they can play like that week in, week out - or they can LawrenceBryce off...
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Re: 1872 cup - Is anyone still paying attention?

Postby disco on Sun May 07, 2017 1:30 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
disco wrote:Fair play to Edinburgh - earned that win through hard work and application. They're certainly not as poor a side as this season has made them out to be. But today's game has me questioning the mental strength and fortitude of Scottish rugby players.

On the Edinburgh side - where has that attitude been this season? The digging in and making the opposition work for every yard. The little shots and afters to throw the other side off their game. Why have, for example, SHC and Duncan Weir not been able to bring that focus and consistency to their distribution and game management during most of the other 28 games played by Edinburgh this season?

And on the Glasgow side a slightly different set of problems but again it comes down to resilience. Why has the level of play, the precision and accuracy required to make good decisions and execute skills under pressure - why has this dropped off towards the end of the campaign? It either started in the wake of achieving the long dreamt of goal of qualification for the Champions Cup quarters or possibly the Six Nations (and that game against England, the sort of result that doesn't happen to teams with real mental strength and a belief that they can win).

The issue for Townsend, Rennie and Cockerill is that if they want to see the 3 sides succeed and improve they're going to need players who can maintain the levels they're capable of week in, week out throughout a season. Currently there simply aren't enough Scottish players doing that.


You're preaching to the choir talking about mental fragility here disco, I think the win vs Dragons gave us a lot of confidence though.

For Glasgow's slump you just need to look at Toonie who said his aim was to get out the Champions Cup groups, when that was achieved the season completely went tits up and it doesn't seem a coincidence. The Glasgow team were poor today and considering Toonie was leaving, Lamont was retiring and many Glasgow players off too was very surprising. Do questions have to be asked of Gray's captaincy? He looks like he needs a rest.

Such incredibly fine margins on things like that as well - there were 2 seconds left on the clock when the ref awarded a penalty against the Dragons - 2 seconds! The Drags get the ball back from that ruck or he calls it as unplayable and the game is over.

For Glasgow I think it's a whole heap of factors but certainly 'mission accomplished' on the Champions Cup latter stages was a big one. Jonny always seems to look knackered! Can still put in 20+ tackles a game though (not today mind given Glasgow hardly had to make any tackles...) He's still growing into the captaincy. It'll be interesting to see what kind of role Callum Gibbins takes as he almost looks like he's coming over to be a possible skipper during the Test windows.
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Re: 1872 cup - Is anyone still paying attention?

Postby Weegie on Sun May 07, 2017 9:38 am

How many times have Edinburgh done this to us long suffering supporters? You have just about reached the point of saying that enough is enough, and they pull a performance out of the bag. You think the corner has been turned, hope springs eternal, only for it to lie in ashes a few months later.

Not again surely?
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Re: 1872 cup - Is anyone still paying attention?

Postby The Feral Goat on Sun May 07, 2017 12:04 pm

It is not good enough from the players, second half in particular we out muscled Glasgow, if we performed with that focus and aggression week in week out fans would be happy and Hodge would probably be head coach must be a bit sickening for him as well.

I will give Cockerill benefit of the doubt rather than the squad, i refuse to believe he will allow such sub standard performances as we have seen can easily see someone getting hooked after 15-20mins if not preforming to his standard.
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Re: 1872 cup - Is anyone still paying attention?

Postby Tichtheid on Sun May 07, 2017 12:11 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:It is not good enough from the players, second half in particular we out muscled Glasgow, if we performed with that focus and aggression week in week out fans would be happy and Hodge would probably be head coach must be a bit sickening for him as well.

I will give Cockerill benefit of the doubt rather than the squad, i refuse to believe he will allow such sub standard performances as we have seen can easily see someone getting hooked after 15-20mins if not preforming to his standard.



My eternal optimism has me thinking that Hodge will do okay with Cockerill as his boss. Cockers will set the tone, he will not accept "stars" anywhere in the squad, he will instill a work ethic and attitude which has perhaps been missing.
If Cockers gets the pack working then the backs coach's job is made infinitely easier - maybe Hodge just isn't ready to be head coach, but will do fine as the attack guy - there were signs in the dead cat bounce after Solly left that Hodge has something to offer in that capacity.
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Re: 1872 cup - Is anyone still paying attention?

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun May 07, 2017 1:20 pm

Tichtheid wrote:
The Feral Goat wrote:It is not good enough from the players, second half in particular we out muscled Glasgow, if we performed with that focus and aggression week in week out fans would be happy and Hodge would probably be head coach must be a bit sickening for him as well.

I will give Cockerill benefit of the doubt rather than the squad, i refuse to believe he will allow such sub standard performances as we have seen can easily see someone getting hooked after 15-20mins if not preforming to his standard.



My eternal optimism has me thinking that Hodge will do okay with Cockerill as his boss. Cockers will set the tone, he will not accept "stars" anywhere in the squad, he will instill a work ethic and attitude which has perhaps been missing.
If Cockers gets the pack working then the backs coach's job is made infinitely easier - maybe Hodge just isn't ready to be head coach, but will do fine as the attack guy - there were signs in the dead cat bounce after Solly left that Hodge has something to offer in that capacity.


There have been some signs of life in the backs this year, it's much easier when the forwards build the platform and SHC clicks with Weir and they completely control the game too like they all did yesterday. If I was Cockerill I would be excited about that - the Edinburgh pack can dominate up front, SHC can pass, Weir can control a game, the backs can pick a gap, the defence can be physical and nasty and with a smidge of confidence we don't lose the game in a brainmelting fashion.

Apparently Cockers is with the squad today for the debrief, hopefully he's telling them to be in the best shape of their lives for next season. If he can have the squad buy in and play like they did yesterday we're in for a good season.
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Re: 1872 cup - Is anyone still paying attention?

Postby germain on Sun May 07, 2017 3:55 pm

Weegie wrote:How many times have Edinburgh done this to us long suffering supporters? You have just about reached the point of saying that enough is enough, and they pull a performance out of the bag. You think the corner has been turned, hope springs eternal, only for it to lie in ashes a few months later.


That's sure. It's been the story of the last two years. We cannot deduce anything of this victory : "too little too late" as Hodge said.
But we can be hopeful for three reasons.
1- There are changes in the coaching staff. I don't know if it will be good or bad, but we needed change. I'm not fond of Cockerill but I can't deny he has a certain quality.
2- We finished on a small hight, and we can hope to start well next season.
3- We secured a strong group of players in the forwards, and the additions of Bennett and maybe Fruean make our backs look much better.
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Re: 1872 cup - Is anyone still paying attention?

Postby Pitfitter on Mon May 08, 2017 7:31 am

There still needs to loads of KelvinDeaker kicking going on, although it was nice to end with a couple of wins and one performance that will open my wallet when the season ticket mail arrives,lets pray we have a 17/18 season that's worth it, top 6 anyone?
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Re: 1872 cup - Is anyone still paying attention?

Postby adi1314 on Mon May 08, 2017 3:12 pm

Any win at this stage is to be celebrated. Thought Toolis & Ritchie were excellent, Weir was good and Bryce has shown in the last 2 games, what he was like at Glasgow. Dean made a couple of decent breaks.
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