Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby macdone on Sat May 20, 2017 9:41 am

Firstly, they need to let supporters into the main bar in the clubhouse. That would transform pre and post match. The castle is dreadful - a worse facility than most Division 7 clubs have.
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sat May 20, 2017 10:27 am

Oldsalt wrote:If Edinburgh have any ambition, then if they achieve anything they will have to play at Murrayfield or somewhere else with at least double the capacity of Myreside. Can Myreside be expanded to suit a European quarter final/semi final crowd? If it can't then being at Myreside is a waste of time.


This is my main issue, if Edinburgh start competing at the business end of the table fixtures will be moved back to Murrayfield to accommodate bigger crowds.
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby BruceLee on Sat May 20, 2017 10:47 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Oldsalt wrote:If Edinburgh have any ambition, then if they achieve anything they will have to play at Murrayfield or somewhere else with at least double the capacity of Myreside. Can Myreside be expanded to suit a European quarter final/semi final crowd? If it can't then being at Myreside is a waste of time.


This is my main issue, if Edinburgh start competing at the business end of the table fixtures will be moved back to Murrayfield to accommodate bigger crowds.

That would be a nice problem to have if Edinburgh as a team were competing once again.In fact im up for two season tickets next year after a fairly long time away.We can only improve next season and i feel with a new regime this will happen.
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby joe soap on Sat May 20, 2017 11:34 am

Oldsalt wrote:If Edinburgh have any ambition, then if they achieve anything they will have to play at Murrayfield or somewhere else with at least double the capacity of Myreside. Can Myreside be expanded to suit a European quarter final/semi final crowd? If it can't then being at Myreside is a waste of time.


ability to expand is a big point. As you say, if they have ambition.
But lets break that down a bit.
If there is clearly no prospect ever ever of expansion, then end the trial, find somewhere else and start again. The reasons for exiting Murrayfield wouldn't have changed.
But assuming there is no permanent ban set in stone then Edinburgh don't need more really at present - especially of hey want to create that demand that a small stadium creates. Again worth looking down the M8 - Scotstoun started at 5k, there was much resistance and persuasion needed, and its now over 7K and they are talking about more.

In terms of big games, it would be nice to have to worry about euro QFs, but if we are talking Champs Cup then it isn't a home match, its home country for semi finals, QFs yes Edinburgh would need either temp capacity for the one off (as Glasgow did) or a bigger stadium if capacity was stuck at 5K ish. Not ideal and as GaryIPA says shows the need for a mid sized stadium somewhere in the area. Get to Champs Cup Qfs though and the need for more capacity starts to be really justified on a permanent basis
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby royc on Sat May 20, 2017 12:12 pm

Myreside is the right size and scale for Edinburgh at the moment, 5,500 capacity is good enough. Yes, it needs some developments on the infrastructure, but I think that will come, it would not have been sensible to lash out too much money for the brief trial period.

If the team progresses to winning regularly and the crowds grow, then it will be inevitable that a temporary stand is put up on the east side and an alternative access road is configured. (There are obvious and simple solutions to the latter). If Edinburgh reach the Champs QFs or anything startling like that, well the club is in the same position as Warriors, they debark to Rugby Park in Kilmarnock. The equivalent in our case is not MF, too bleeding large and empty for both fans and cameras, it is Almondvale, about the same distance from Myreside as Kilmarnock is from Scotstoun. Warriors seem to handle both a basic ground like Scotstoun (with an athletics track round it!) is and switching to a larger stadium occasionally without any fuss or yearning for life in a President's Suite!

I see Myreside as an interim solution. The club needs to grow to getting regular 10,000 crowds, but that is a good bit away I'd think. It is possible that, by then, the Council will finally have done something about developing Meadowbank, but if the plans are unchanged, it will be a smaller stadium, primarily designed for athletics, with minimal parking, so it won't be any great purpose-built solution. I am hoping that, five years down the road, the SRU will be looking at starting a mini-Murrayfield on the back pitches, with a main stand and some temporary stands to kick off with, a proper 10,000-seater rugby stadium.

With a bit of development, Myreside could be fine until that great day. Until then, I would rather the team and club were miles away from the shadow of MF and able to develop their own ethos, without lots of MF bigwigs looking over their shoulders daily.
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby GaryIPA on Sat May 20, 2017 12:37 pm

macdone wrote:Firstly, they need to let supporters into the main bar in the clubhouse. That would transform pre and post match. The castle is dreadful - a worse facility than most Division 7 clubs have.
m
Aye. We are now at the equivalent of hughenden, how many years is it since Glasgow left there?
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby royc on Sat May 20, 2017 7:25 pm

macdone wrote:Firstly, they need to let supporters into the main bar in the clubhouse. That would transform pre and post match. The castle is dreadful - a worse facility than most Division 7 clubs have.


From my hazy memories of a look-see visit to the clubhouse, I doubt you would get more than a couple of hundred people in there, it is far too small for even a limited portion of a matchday crowd. It is ideal for the 'VIP' visitors though, the coaching teams, match officials, sponsors, business partners, media, Pro 12 people etc, that is a good use of it.

I think ER could do a much better supporters bar than the Castle, it is not so difficult. I'm surprised that they have not used any of the facilities on the GWC campus, in the same way that Warriors deck out a gym as the bar, there's a gym there, a big assembly hall, dining rooms etc. Has the College been reluctant to offer its facilities? I think JP needs to delve into the issue, because the Castle is OK-ish but a bit short of what's needed, perhaps particularly for those who measure everything against the President's Suite.
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby davidsandilands on Sat May 20, 2017 9:10 pm

From the defensive nature of JP on question about why not a ground on Murrayfield back pitches they simply don't have the money and I doubt unless someone has died and left them money the GWC have any. If either did we would already know. GWC have won regardless their stadium has been upgraded for free.

There's always going to be a hard core support who love the amateur rugby style stadiums but saying Murrayfield was a luxury or comfort ignores the fact we are competing for fans, not just in rugby but for people who attend sport in general and family days out. In truth as it now stands Edinburgh rugby is a very poor offering compared with alternative options for sport in Scotland. Take how the hospitality is run for example, regularly people were left locked out of the car park despite arriving at the right time and struggling to make the kick off on time due to speed of service. Are the business supporters really going to continue paying the same they paid for Murrayfield at Myreside? (I suspect a lot of them will look elsewhere once a move is confirmed)

The lack of transparency and haphazard nature in the way Edinburgh runs hurts it the most. Getting rid of our coach after 4 games (with no succession plan at all) and a sudden decision for a stadium change, taking place half way into a season with no way of justifying why they made the choice, having just aborted an Easter road experiment, it is all farcical.

Results obviously matter in sport but its not the only factor, we are the worst supported team in the pro 12 outside of the Italians, yet would you say Cardiff have had much more fun than us and it didn't make much of a difference when we won 8 out of 11 home league games last year.
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby GaryIPA on Sat May 20, 2017 9:17 pm

davidsandilands wrote:From the defensive nature of JP on question about why not a ground on Murrayfield back pitches they simply don't have the money and I doubt unless someone has died and left them money the GWC have any. If either did we would already know. GWC have won regardless their stadium has been upgraded for free.

There's always going to be a hard core support who love the amateur rugby style stadiums but saying Murrayfield was a luxury or comfort ignores the fact we are competing for fans, not just in rugby but for people who attend sport in general and family days out. In truth as it now stands Edinburgh rugby is a very poor offering compared with alternative options for sport in Scotland. Take how the hospitality is run for example, regularly people were left locked out of the car park despite arriving at the right time and struggling to make the kick off on time due to speed of service. Are the business supporters really going to continue paying the same they paid for Murrayfield at Myreside? (I suspect a lot of them will look elsewhere once a move is confirmed)

The lack of transparency and haphazard nature in the way Edinburgh runs hurts it the most. Getting rid of our coach after 4 games (with no succession plan at all) and a sudden decision for a stadium change, taking place half way into a season with no way of justifying why they made the choice, having just aborted an Easter road experiment, it is all farcical.

Results obviously matter in sport but its not the only factor, we are the worst supported team in the pro 12 outside of the Italians, yet would you say Cardiff have had much more fun than us and it didn't make much of a difference when we won 8 out of 11 home league games last year.


Fair comment. Still not sold on JP. Never the right appointment imo
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby disco on Sun May 21, 2017 4:14 pm

biffer wrote:
Chris wrote:To me, there's a fairly simple equation. There are three factors to getting a decent support:
(1) A good matchday experience - i.e. travel, beer, atmosphere, seating etc.
(2) Attractive rugby to watch
(3) Our team winning consistently: not every game, but the majority. The kind of feel that you get at Munster, Leicester, Toulon etc.: that your ground is a fortress, and that losing is unusual.

Get two out of three right, and you're going to attract decent crowds. Get less than that, your support will fall away given time. At the moment, we're not really succeeding on any of those three bases, whereas over the past 12 years or so at Murrayfield we tended to have an acceptable matchday experience (apart from the atmosphere) if nothing else. So, I'll put up with:
1. A good matchday experience, and good rugby to watch, even if we lose (2/3).
2. A good matchday experience, and winning ugly (2/3).
3. A rubbish matchday experience, but we play great rugby and win (2/3).
4. A great matchday experience, we play wonderful rugby, and we win (3/3).


That's just not true. There's one factor to getting big crowds.

Winning.

That's it, no more complicated. Everything else is just fluff.

Is it just quite that simple though? Saracens are double European Cup winners. Reigning Aviva champs (for another week at least!) For their regular Aviva games at Allianz Park they averaged an attendance 9,587. Only Worcester, Newcastle and Sale had a lower average this season.

In a similar vein Scotland have always managed to sell out Six Nations games (barring Italy) even during periods when the national side was pretty dreadful and Autumn Test attendances plummeted. Which maybe suggests there's still an appetite among rugby fans for an event and a 'guid day oot' even when the result might be almost a foregone conclusion.
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun May 21, 2017 4:21 pm

Re the Six Nations there was always a big travelling support from France, Wales, England and Ireland which helps. I also really don't think the Six Nations is at all comparable to the Pro12. The Six Nations is a different kettle of fish when it comes to a day oot to most sporting occasions.

Saracens are a very badly supported side unlike the traditional English teams but I'll bet they have more fans now then when they didn't win...
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby joe soap on Sun May 21, 2017 5:08 pm

disco wrote:In a similar vein Scotland have always managed to sell out Six Nations games (barring Italy) even during periods when the national side was pretty dreadful and Autumn Test attendances plummeted. Which maybe suggests there's still an appetite among rugby fans for an event and a 'guid day oot' even when the result might be almost a foregone conclusion.


The is aways a bit more than winning but perennial losers with no hope on the horizon is a killer!
But the filling of Murryfiled is not a simple as you suggest,not quite. As FKL says huge numbers of Welsh and Irish in particular travelled - but could always get tickets as a Scot if you wanted them, and just always for the French game.

The difference these days is far more Scots fans, and that started before we really improved much to be fair, but the green shots were there - and a key point is the Scotland season pass - folk now fear they won't get a ticket and sign up for these. Demand now exceeds supply by a long way, and seats are sold for Italy whether folk attend or not.
The lessons for Edinburgh are obvious. You cannot create a situation where demand gets anywhere even half way to match supply in Murrayfield for an Edinburgh match. How many folk would see a wet cold night in a 5% filled stadium as a party night?

Also as you suggest Murrayfield like other international stadia is also a bit of a party day - get folk who would never be near a game otherwise (which is fine, their money is as good as mine!). And its a max of 5 days a year as opposed to 14. You will see them all over, but only at big games; not for Dragons on a typical Edinburgh Friday evening. A pro club cannot core support round party goers.

what builds support is winning. What gets a team wining is a combination of many things; so is what makes them perennial losers. Playing in your own ground, not the national stadium should be a no brainer
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby royc on Sun May 21, 2017 10:46 pm

joe soap wrote:[

what builds support is winning. What gets a team wining is a combination of many things; so is what makes them perennial losers. Playing in your own ground, not the national stadium should be a no brainer


Yep, this hits the bulls-eye. Approaching JS's excellent points slightly tangentially, despite our fond dreams, ER is not really a 'club' at the moment, at least in the way that most of our competitors are. The DOR is a national MF figure, concerned primarily (and rightly) about the Scottish team, so Edinburgh inevitably serves as a parking lot for (largely) international forwards, the big decisions about the squad and players are taken at MF, the money and accounts are run from MF, decisions about the stadium are taken at MF, etc., etc.

This is not a criticism of the SRU, the CEO, Board, SJ, JP or anyone else, it is just how things are. It is not however how things need to be to move forward. The club needs IMO to get to a bit of an arms-length relationship with the mother ship, where it has rather more autonomy and a chance to move forward, make its own decisions about key issues like coaches and players and carve out its own identity. Getting away from MF - club, players, matches, office base - is for me an important first step, one good reason for supporting the move to Myreside or anywhere that is not MF.
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby Oldsalt on Mon May 22, 2017 6:08 am

The way to go is there already and you actually have a choice of options from the Pro 12.
Firstly I'll mention Scarlets / Park y Scarlets. Their ground was dump they elected to start from scratch. During the literal rebuilding the team was very much in second place. Now they are deservedly in the Pro12 final.
Secondly there is the Osprey's. Community owned stadium shared with Swansea City.
Now before you all shout we've heard these arguments before yes you have. What is missing is will power / determination. I think the opportunity has been missed with Hearts redeveloping Tynecastle or is it still possible?
On the other hand do the SRU actually care?
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby dolf_lundgren on Mon May 22, 2017 6:47 am

I think it comes down to cash rather than will. We are still paying off Murrayfield and the lessons of that will live long in the memory.

There is no missed opportunity at Hearts, the pitch isn't and cant be nig enough. They already took a few rows of seats out of each end to ensure it was long enough for Euro football, they couldn't do any more as they are totally hemmed in. The only way it could have worked would have been turning the pitch 180degs and starting again, they and we don't have the budget for that.

If we are talking municipal stadium then Meadowbank is best bet.
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