Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby EWT spoons on Fri May 19, 2017 8:48 am

bm22 wrote:I think that it would unhelpful going to ER and telling them that we'll all be so much happier if the team start winning.

The Supporters' club need to be able to represent the views of supporters and collecting data like this is a fairly practical solution to this.

It is the job of Edinburgh Rugby to go to other grounds and find out what works and what doesn't, not the Supporters' Club.

We as supporters can only give opinions on the options that have been presented to us and the best that the supporters' club can do is represent those opinions. It would appear that on average supporters prefer Murrayfield on every measure on this survey.

I am actually surprised that Myreside has been rated so negatively across the board. Ratings for Myreside were given first, so these ratings are not a reaction to the rating for Murrayfield. Murrayfield may be higher due to this effect, but it doesn't explain why every single factor measured here for Myreside has an average score below 5, or why so few people would be likely to recommend Myreside.

Having seen the results of the survey in full, I personally think that if ER cannot make matches at Myreside feel more like a rugby club than matches at Murrayfield, in the opinions of people that go to those matches, then there is something very wrong.


I would say going to Edinburgh rugby and telling them we would all be much happier if results on the pitch improved would be good to be honest, because at the end of the day that’s what really matters. It’s pretty obvious but so is telling them folk want to be able to see the big screen (as per your point from earlier). Both are just common sense, so if you do one, why not the other?

I agree that the club should absolutely be going out to other grounds and finding out what works so they can implement, but you are doing the same thing by looking at what works at Murrayfield, so why do it for one stadium (that is going to overshadow every other stadium in Scotland, and a number of others in the rest of the UK) and not one that is actually more appropriate. You could easily adapt the survey and pop a note on the warriors forum asking them to fill it out. They clearly don’t need to say what they like about Myerside/MF but what works for them at Scotstoun.

Sorry I know I am labouring the point here, but when you say “supporters prefer Murrayfield on every measure on this survey.” The survey appears geared to getting that result. It’s not asking what could be improved, it’s not asking what supporters believe to be the right option/direction for the club, it’s asking them to score Murrayfield and a school ground after a trial period where limited work was done (primarily I would imagine because it was a trial). If you got any other result from that survey other than “hey isn’t Murrayfield great” then something would have gone very wrong.

For the record I’m not saying Myerside is great, it has problems absolutely but it is far more suited to a club of our size than Murrayfield is and the problems are fixable, what might have been useful is collating a list of what fans would like to see improved, rather than saying it’s not a nice as Murrayfield.

Plus I don't think you have specifically called this out, but others have. If your main reason for attending games is the comfort and surroundings, rather than what is happening on the field then that is our biggest issue right there. If we get the product right on the field then I would hope supporters would make the effort to come and see the team play, rather than looking for excuses not to, as seems to be the case just now.
Last edited by EWT spoons on Fri May 19, 2017 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby dolf_lundgren on Fri May 19, 2017 8:49 am

I don't know what the answer is but I'm pretty sure it isn't Murrayfield long term.

Not surprising that the ST holders prefer MField and the ticket buyers prefer Myreside, as they bought tickets specifically for those. I think the experience could be improved at Myreside though, without breaking the bank. It just needs a bit of thought.

The main thing is on the pitch though, a lot of moans and groans don't worry people if they get entertained. Bearing in mind that most people pay for the rugby, not the quality of pies etc. Ensuring everyone can get under cover is essential though and shouldn't be prohibitive.

It is impossible to do but the real key is speaking to those who don't come and ask what would make them come. Maybe put in a covered terrace and sell tickets for £10 if there are savings, I don't know the answer. One of the big problems will be budget, it will cost the same amount to put the stands up whether they are full or empty, so it makes it hard to budget and becomes chicken and egg. Glasgow have shown you can have mediocre facilitates and still make it a good night, Leinster even more so.
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby joe soap on Fri May 19, 2017 9:29 am

bignose wrote:One of the key questions for the club is actually "how much money do we save by being at Myreside?". If it's not very much, then staying there would be insane. If it's a lot, then does that compensate for the loss of ticket sales that I think are inevitable given the current off-field (and on-field) offering.


if you seriously believe that a primary reason for moving from Murrayfield to anywhere is to save money, then I despair, I honestly do.
Fans need to be looked after, but the obsession with Murrayfield typifies all that is wrong with Edinburgh rugby on and off the park for years.
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby biffer on Fri May 19, 2017 9:46 am

EWT spoons wrote:
bm22 wrote:I think that it would unhelpful going to ER and telling them that we'll all be so much happier if the team start winning.

The Supporters' club need to be able to represent the views of supporters and collecting data like this is a fairly practical solution to this.

It is the job of Edinburgh Rugby to go to other grounds and find out what works and what doesn't, not the Supporters' Club.

We as supporters can only give opinions on the options that have been presented to us and the best that the supporters' club can do is represent those opinions. It would appear that on average supporters prefer Murrayfield on every measure on this survey.

I am actually surprised that Myreside has been rated so negatively across the board. Ratings for Myreside were given first, so these ratings are not a reaction to the rating for Murrayfield. Murrayfield may be higher due to this effect, but it doesn't explain why every single factor measured here for Myreside has an average score below 5, or why so few people would be likely to recommend Myreside.

Having seen the results of the survey in full, I personally think that if ER cannot make matches at Myreside feel more like a rugby club than matches at Murrayfield, in the opinions of people that go to those matches, then there is something very wrong.


I would say going to Edinburgh rugby and telling them we would all be much happier if results on the pitch improved would be good to be honest, because at the end of the day that’s what really matters. It’s pretty obvious but so is telling them folk want to be able to see the big screen (as per your point from earlier). Both are just common sense, so if you do one, why not the other?

I agree that the club should absolutely be going out to other grounds and finding out what works so they can implement, but you are doing the same thing by looking at what works at Murrayfield, so why do it for one stadium (that is going to overshadow every other stadium in Scotland, and a number of others in the rest of the UK) and not one that is actually more appropriate. You could easily adapt the survey and pop a note on the warriors forum asking them to fill it out. They clearly don’t need to say what they like about Myerside/MF but what works for them at Scotstoun.

Sorry I know I am labouring the point here, but when you say “supporters prefer Murrayfield on every measure on this survey.” The survey appears geared to getting that result. It’s not asking what could be improved, it’s not asking what supporters believe to be the right option/direction for the club, it’s asking them to score Murrayfield and a school ground after a trial period where limited work was done (primarily I would imagine because it was a trial). If you got any other result from that survey other than “hey isn’t Murrayfield great” then something would have gone very wrong.

For the record I’m not saying Myerside is great, it has problems absolutely but it is far more suited to a club of our size than Murrayfield is and the problems are fixable, what might have been useful is collating a list of what fans would like to see improved, rather than saying it’s not a nice as Murrayfield.

Plus I don't think you haven't specifically called this out, but others have. If your main reason for attending games is the comfort and surroundings, rather than what is happening on the field then that is our biggest issue right there. If we get the product right on the field then I would hope supporters would make the effort to come and see the team play, rather than looking for excuses not to, as seems to be the case just now.


Once again I find myself in complete agreement
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby bignose on Fri May 19, 2017 10:22 am

joe soap wrote:
bignose wrote:One of the key questions for the club is actually "how much money do we save by being at Myreside?". If it's not very much, then staying there would be insane. If it's a lot, then does that compensate for the loss of ticket sales that I think are inevitable given the current off-field (and on-field) offering.


if you seriously believe that a primary reason for moving from Murrayfield to anywhere is to save money, then I despair, I honestly do.
Fans need to be looked after, but the obsession with Murrayfield typifies all that is wrong with Edinburgh rugby on and off the park for years.



If you seriously believe that Edinburgh will start to play better rugby and that everything will magically be fixed by moving to Myreside then I also despair.

I've said on several occasions that the apparent lack of atmosphere at Murrayfield is absolutely *nothing* to do with the stadium. I think there's consensus that dire rugby will fail to generate an atmosphere anywhere. Fix that and nothing else will matter.

There will *still* be a general lack of atmosphere (in my opinion) because of the nature of the crowd - The Library Crew could kill an atmosphere pretty much anywhere. Perhaps the main aim of the move to Myreside is to try to shake them off? I don't know.

My observations about costs are based on simple economics. I simply cannot see the advantage of Myreside as a ground myself. If it puts people off from going, then the loss of income from that needs to be offset against the savings made by operating in a smaller stadium. Nothing controversial in that view, is there?
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby joe soap on Fri May 19, 2017 11:13 am

bignose wrote:If you seriously believe that Edinburgh will start to play better rugby and that everything will magically be fixed by moving to Myreside then I also despair.


and where has anyone claimed that it was a magic bullet?

It has been part of a range of issues for many years; it has been a major issue. Far too cosy and privileged for many players down the years, playing at Murrayfield not special when selected for Scotland. Not them all but too many, part of the poor culture. Edinburgh can never build a proper club culture at Murrayfield. Never
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby joe soap on Fri May 19, 2017 11:18 am

bignose wrote:I've said on several occasions that the apparent lack of atmosphere at Murrayfield is absolutely *nothing* to do with the stadium. I think there's consensus that dire rugby will fail to generate an atmosphere anywhere. Fix that and nothing else will matter.

There will *still* be a general lack of atmosphere (in my opinion) because of the nature of the crowd - The Library Crew could kill an atmosphere pretty much anywhere. Perhaps the main aim of the move to Myreside is to try to shake them off? I don't know.

My observations about costs are based on simple economics. I simply cannot see the advantage of Myreside as a ground myself. If it puts people off from going, then the loss of income from that needs to be offset against the savings made by operating in a smaller stadium. Nothing controversial in that view, is there?


better results are of course key. And better results and folk will go, some tail between legs as they struggle to eat humble pie.

The reason for the move is not financial, certainly not short or possibly medium term. Even longer term if capacity became an issue like Scotstoun for the Weegies, then that would limit income. So money is not the reason.
But there is a reason unless you think its just a capricious move to upset folk. It is about trying to give edinburgh Rugby and its fans a proper home. And not before time.
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby EWT spoons on Fri May 19, 2017 11:29 am

joe soap wrote:
bignose wrote:I've said on several occasions that the apparent lack of atmosphere at Murrayfield is absolutely *nothing* to do with the stadium. I think there's consensus that dire rugby will fail to generate an atmosphere anywhere. Fix that and nothing else will matter.

There will *still* be a general lack of atmosphere (in my opinion) because of the nature of the crowd - The Library Crew could kill an atmosphere pretty much anywhere. Perhaps the main aim of the move to Myreside is to try to shake them off? I don't know.

My observations about costs are based on simple economics. I simply cannot see the advantage of Myreside as a ground myself. If it puts people off from going, then the loss of income from that needs to be offset against the savings made by operating in a smaller stadium. Nothing controversial in that view, is there?


better results are of course key. And better results and folk will go, some tail between legs as they struggle to eat humble pie.

The reason for the move is not financial, certainly not short or possibly medium term. Even longer term if capacity became an issue like Scotstoun for the Weegies, then that would limit income. So money is not the reason.
But there is a reason unless you think its just a capricious move to upset folk. It is about trying to give edinburgh Rugby and its fans a proper home. And not before time.


I largely agree with this, but from what I can remember from the open evenings the club had before the move, did suggest there may be a slight financial element.

Only thing that makes me think that, is because Petrie mentioned that at MF there is no rush to get tickets because they are always going to be available, so people put it off to the last min and then something comes up and they don't get round to buying them. With a smaller ground there is a far smaller number of tickets available so it should 'in theory' encourage fans to get their ticket early to avoid disappointment, and then if they come/or not the club is still getting that revenue.

This however all circles back to results, if we continue with how we've been playing for the last year or so, then we could be playing at a purpose built stadium with all the facilities we could ever dream of, but fans are still going to be put off. Start winning and the fans will be far more enthused to come
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby joe soap on Fri May 19, 2017 12:40 pm

EWT spoons wrote:I largely agree with this, but from what I can remember from the open evenings the club had before the move, did suggest there may be a slight financial element.

Only thing that makes me think that, is because Petrie mentioned that at MF there is no rush to get tickets because they are always going to be available, so people put it off to the last min and then something comes up and they don't get round to buying them. With a smaller ground there is a far smaller number of tickets available so it should 'in theory' encourage fans to get their ticket early to avoid disappointment, and then if they come/or not the club is still getting that revenue.

This however all circles back to results, if we continue with how we've been playing for the last year or so, then we could be playing at a purpose built stadium with all the facilities we could ever dream of, but fans are still going to be put off. Start winning and the fans will be far more enthused to come


yes, getting fans feel the need to but a ticket is a big part of the plan - as opposed to the pick and mix stop start revenue they have now- this is of course what the Weegies have very successfully done, aided by some decent results of course. I see this a s part of the wanting fans to "belong" rather than I might go when I want and take some friends and sit wherever I like, and chat all the way through :(
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby BigD163 on Fri May 19, 2017 12:50 pm

A very small part of it may be that the SRU are looking to sell off upto 49% ownership of both pro sides. Bu having Edinburgh away from Murrayfield it makes all that a little bit cleaner.
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby biffer on Fri May 19, 2017 1:10 pm

joe soap wrote:
bignose wrote:If you seriously believe that Edinburgh will start to play better rugby and that everything will magically be fixed by moving to Myreside then I also despair.


and where has anyone claimed that it was a magic bullet?

It has been part of a range of issues for many years; it has been a major issue. Far too cosy and privileged for many players down the years, playing at Murrayfield not special when selected for Scotland. Not them all but too many, part of the poor culture. Edinburgh can never build a proper club culture at Murrayfield. Never

:above: x1000
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby biffer on Fri May 19, 2017 1:12 pm

joe soap wrote:
. And better results and folk will go, some tail between legs as they struggle to eat humble pie.

.


Nah, this is Edinburgh. Some people will never, ever, evereverever go just to prove a point. They'll go to the Glasgow game at Murrayfield and any QFs/SFs there, just to prove the point. I know people who still flat refuse to use the tram even when it's the best option for them, they'll spend a tenner on a taxi instead. There are some right arseholes in this city sometimes.
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby bignose on Fri May 19, 2017 1:31 pm

I'm pretty sure that we are furiously agreeing with each other on the key point...

There are three main aspects to building a successful professional rugby club:

1) Results
2) Results
3) Results

Everything else is peripheral.

Over to you Mr Cockerill.
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby Rasho on Fri May 19, 2017 1:36 pm

Lot of complains about the survey, but it is still good useful data. As with all statistics it`s all about how you use and interpret it. Saying things are obvious to one person may not be to another and not to Edi Rugby either.

If the experience (ignoring results for the minute) had been better people would rate the 2 closer, appreciating the difference and allow for that. It highlights the importance of sorting that out if we stay at Myreside as it is a long way from the majority of people being happy and using the castle, for example. People will now know how their specific travel etc works, too, and that feedback point helps.

A clear concern for Edi Rugby is whether people will recommend and bring others along. A sucessful trial could easily have seen that being better at Myreside. For the club to grow it needs to be somewhere where people like the club atmosphere and will recommend it and bring along family and friends to grow the crowd base. If that doesn't happen we're in trouble. It needs investment for that at Myreside.

Having been to Scotstoun for the 1872, there is a marked difference (and btw I wasn't swayed by the win). Arriving at the ground, the facilities inside and outside, main stand, access from town, branding all made it feel like a pro outfit. It was like Edinburgh playing a cup game against a team a couple of leagues above and that's looking at a stadium with similar capacity. I hadn't expected the grounds to be so markedly different and feel like Glasgow operated in a league above in terms of ground and facilities. Currently Myreside is very clearly a school ground. A lot of investment is needed to make Myreside get anywhere near the facilities, branding and quality of Scotstoun.
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Re: Supporters' Club Survey - Results Highlights

Postby biffer on Fri May 19, 2017 1:54 pm

Rasho wrote:Lot of complains about the survey, but it is still good useful data. As with all statistics it`s all about how you use and interpret it. Saying things are obvious to one person may not be to another and not to Edi Rugby either.

If the experience (ignoring results for the minute) had been better people would rate the 2 closer, appreciating the difference and allow for that. It highlights the importance of sorting that out if we stay at Myreside as it is a long way from the majority of people being happy and using the castle, for example. People will now know how their specific travel etc works, too, and that feedback point helps.

A clear concern for Edi Rugby is whether people will recommend and bring others along. A sucessful trial could easily have seen that being better at Myreside. For the club to grow it needs to be somewhere where people like the club atmosphere and will recommend it and bring along family and friends to grow the crowd base. If that doesn't happen we're in trouble. It needs investment for that at Myreside.

Having been to Scotstoun for the 1872, there is a marked difference (and btw I wasn't swayed by the win). Arriving at the ground, the facilities inside and outside, main stand, access from town, branding all made it feel like a pro outfit. It was like Edinburgh playing a cup game against a team a couple of leagues above and that's looking at a stadium with similar capacity. I hadn't expected the grounds to be so markedly different and feel like Glasgow operated in a league above in terms of ground and facilities. Currently Myreside is very clearly a school ground. A lot of investment is needed to make Myreside get anywhere near the facilities, branding and quality of Scotstoun.


I think that's the point though, Scotstoun shows what you can do with a bit of investment. It still has significant flaws - I hate a ground with a track around it, the supporters bar is awful, public transport isn't great and it's full of weeg, but they've done a lot over the last few years. The problem is I think we have certain elements of our support who want everything sorted from day one. Not a huge number but there are some who make more noise about toilets than they ever make during a game. What the survey should help to do is show what the priorities are.
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