Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby disco on Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:24 pm

djsxv wrote:I assume that this will have repercussions for entry to the European cups? I can't imagine the English or French clubs wanting to give up any of their places.

Anyone know?

The Pro12 have 7 places and it had been agreed from this season they would be given to the top 7 finishers in the league, no matter which of the 4 countries they came from. So in some ways it's up to the Pro12 and its members how that works if there are more teams in their league. In practice I'm sure there will be discussions and agreement with the English and French.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby biffer on Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:23 am

disco wrote:
djsxv wrote:I assume that this will have repercussions for entry to the European cups? I can't imagine the English or French clubs wanting to give up any of their places.

Anyone know?

The Pro12 have 7 places and it had been agreed from this season they would be given to the top 7 finishers in the league, no matter which of the 4 countries they came from. So in some ways it's up to the Pro12 and its members how that works if there are more teams in their league. In practice I'm sure there will be discussions and agreement with the English and French.


I'm sure I saw something saying they'd be allowed in but all the games would have to be played in Europe.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby biffer on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:00 am

royc wrote:The other element I dislike is the pools being based on national allocations, as in 2 Irish, 2 Welsh etc. If you want equally competitive pools, you'd just allocate the teams in the order they finished last season. This would turn out as:

Pool A
1 - Munster
4 - Ospreys
5 - Ulster
8 - Connacht
9 - Edinburgh
12 - Zebre
+ - South Africa 1

Pool B
2 - Leinster
3 - Scarlets
6 - Glasgow
7 - Cardiff
10 - Treviso
11 - Dragons
+ - South Africa 2


I can understand your dislike of that, but if you don't do it it'll mess up the scheduling. IRFU and WRU will both want all of their sides to play home and away for financial reasons. This would give a schedule of 12 conference games, 7 non-conference games plus 2 additional games against your other national teams. Can chuck in an extra random non conference game to make it 22 so you have even home and away games.

Swapping Connacht and Cardiff in your list works though with the difficulties still roughly equalised. The traditional view of how strong teams are will come into it as well as the nationalities. So you'll have each conference with 2 Irish, 2 Welsh, 1 each of Scottish, Italian and Saffer. Then you split up all of these pairs, these being teams viewed as roughly as strong as each other in recent history

Leinster / Munster
Ulster / Glasgow
Cardiff / Connacht
Edinburgh / Dragons
Treviso / Zebre
Cheetahs / Kings
Scarlets / Ospreys
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby biffer on Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:49 pm

On checking Expedia today for a random weekend in March, a return to Johannesburg is only £420. Might be tempting in future years for a wee bit of winter sun in PE.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby artie fufkin on Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:28 pm

Could this season be the final season of 22 regular season games? Two conferences of 7 gives 12 home and away add 7 non conference games plus one extra Derby gives 20 regular season games. Reduce games during six nations autumn tests, give more rest to players and possibly enhance the playoff structure?
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby biffer on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:13 pm

artie fufkin wrote:Could this season be the final season of 22 regular season games? Two conferences of 7 gives 12 home and away add 7 non conference games plus one extra Derby gives 20 regular season games. Reduce games during six nations autumn tests, give more rest to players and possibly enhance the playoff structure?


Irish and Welsh will want all their teams to play home and away so one additional game isn't enough.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:47 pm

biffer wrote:
artie fufkin wrote:Could this season be the final season of 22 regular season games? Two conferences of 7 gives 12 home and away add 7 non conference games plus one extra Derby gives 20 regular season games. Reduce games during six nations autumn tests, give more rest to players and possibly enhance the playoff structure?


Irish and Welsh will want all their teams to play home and away so one additional game isn't enough.


I thought there would be two extra 'rivalry' games to accommodate this so we will play Glasgow 3 times rather than the usual non conference 1 game.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby biffer on Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:55 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
biffer wrote:
artie fufkin wrote:Could this season be the final season of 22 regular season games? Two conferences of 7 gives 12 home and away add 7 non conference games plus one extra Derby gives 20 regular season games. Reduce games during six nations autumn tests, give more rest to players and possibly enhance the playoff structure?


Irish and Welsh will want all their teams to play home and away so one additional game isn't enough.


I thought there would be two extra 'rivalry' games to accommodate this so we will play Glasgow 3 times rather than the usual non conference 1 game.


2 extra games gives 21 total, which would be a bit odd. They're talking about rivalry games for the Irish and Welsh, two extra games means they play home and away against all the other teams from their country. We will be put in with the Italians and saffers. We won't play Glasgow three times, that was just the BBC muppet not understanding what was going on around him.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby Fanscene on Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:05 pm

I just hope that we go for a single broadcaster. Sky would be the best option as they have lost Europe at the end of the season, and that is when the Pro-12/14/16 contract is up for renewal.

My overall thoughts about all of this and the arrival of the two weakest SA Super rugby teams

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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby robdinsdale on Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:22 pm

biffer wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
biffer wrote:
Irish and Welsh will want all their teams to play home and away so one additional game isn't enough.


I thought there would be two extra 'rivalry' games to accommodate this so we will play Glasgow 3 times rather than the usual non conference 1 game.


2 extra games gives 21 total, which would be a bit odd. They're talking about rivalry games for the Irish and Welsh, two extra games means they play home and away against all the other teams from their country. We will be put in with the Italians and saffers. We won't play Glasgow three times, that was just the BBC muppet not understanding what was going on around him.


I thought us playing Glasgow 3 times makes sense if the Irish and Welsh want to keep their full complement of derby games and if the conferences are split equally by nation. Everyone plays an extra two games against national rivals from the other conference.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby The Chiel on Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:05 am

Fanscene wrote:I just hope that we go for a single broadcaster. Sky would be the best option as they have lost Europe at the end of the season, and that is when the Pro-12/14/16 contract is up for renewal.



I hope you mean a single satellite broadcaster ?

BBC Alba, fronted by the great Hugh Dan have been outstanding in supporting both our pro teams over the last 2 -3 years, and it would be a crying shame to see them pushed out in favour of Murdoch TV.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby Tichtheid on Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:26 pm

The Chiel wrote:
Fanscene wrote:I just hope that we go for a single broadcaster. Sky would be the best option as they have lost Europe at the end of the season, and that is when the Pro-12/14/16 contract is up for renewal.



I hope you mean a single satellite broadcaster ?

BBC Alba, fronted by the great Hugh Dan have been outstanding in supporting both our pro teams over the last 2 -3 years, and it would be a crying shame to see them pushed out in favour of Murdoch TV.



Hear Hear!
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby Fanscene on Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:22 pm

I agree about the quality of coverage from BBC Alba, but.....

I did mean one broadcaster. The coverage is a bit fragmented though BBC Wales and Northern Ireland. I am massive advocate of the BBC and coverage of sport, but I don't think from a Scotland perspective, we are getting value.

Has the interest in club rugby increased due to the coverage in terms of attendance. I genuinely don't think so (although we had been pretty dire for a few years). I think coverage of Internationals has been the driver in interest, and being on BBC for Autumn and the Summer tours of Japan last year and Italy in Singapore was brilliant.

I feel that if Sky put some serious coverage into the Pro-12 it will grow the brand to get closer to the level that the English and French leagues are on. With the extra dosh, Scotland could keep more players up here, and manage their schedules. When they go South, they have no control, just look at the issue with George North when he joined Northampton. The RFU have joint contracts to manage players as they can afford to. The Welsh and Irish do, but they have 4 teams to place their key players in. With the International schedule under pressure, extra training may be difficult to get the players released from.

While I agree that coverage on Terrestrial would be good, I worry about the long term lack of funding as the BBC won't be paying to much for a non-mainstream league.

What I would hope is that Sky get the main games (potentially 3 a weekend) and they get first choice of all three. Then the terrestrial can pick up the best of the rest. This would allow Alba to show Edinburgh and Glasgow, as often they won't be the first choice due to the main Irish and Welsh teams seeming more popular.

So I have contradicted myself at the end but hopefully you get the gist.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby joe soap on Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:59 pm

Fanscene wrote:I agree about the quality of coverage from BBC Alba, but.....

I did mean one broadcaster. The coverage is a bit fragmented though BBC Wales and Northern Ireland. I am massive advocate of the BBC and coverage of sport, but I don't think from a Scotland perspective, we are getting value.

Has the interest in club rugby increased due to the coverage in terms of attendance. I genuinely don't think so (although we had been pretty dire for a few years). I think coverage of Internationals has been the driver in interest, and being on BBC for Autumn and the Summer tours of Japan last year and Italy in Singapore was brilliant.

I feel that if Sky put some serious coverage into the Pro-12 it will grow the brand to get closer to the level that the English and French leagues are on. With the extra dosh, Scotland could keep more players up here, and manage their schedules. When they go South, they have no control, just look at the issue with George North when he joined Northampton. The RFU have joint contracts to manage players as they can afford to. The Welsh and Irish do, but they have 4 teams to place their key players in. With the International schedule under pressure, extra training may be difficult to get the players released from.

While I agree that coverage on Terrestrial would be good, I worry about the long term lack of funding as the BBC won't be paying to much for a non-mainstream league.

What I would hope is that Sky get the main games (potentially 3 a weekend) and they get first choice of all three. Then the terrestrial can pick up the best of the rest. This would allow Alba to show Edinburgh and Glasgow, as often they won't be the first choice due to the main Irish and Welsh teams seeming more popular.

So I have contradicted myself at the end but hopefully you get the gist.


so your argument is basically interest in rugby has not improved when free to air but would improve if pay per view. well there's optimism and there's delusion.
England do not have joint contracts. Just wrong.
Sky pay more for bigger audiences, England has around 6 times the population of Scotland, Wales and N Ireland combined. that is how it works.

Pay TV can help a sport. Exclusive pay TV can kill it. Guess why even the ERCC will go partly free to air next contract.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby gunneria on Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:44 pm

Think BBC Alba get the rights on the minority language ticket so doesn't affect other bids. Never happy about the Australian megalomaniac getting control as you've seen the mess he's made of other sports.
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