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Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:29 pm
by The Feral Goat
Does not say from when or if 12 becomes 13 but an interesting development same time zone so at least in that respect more sensible than North America.

Could be a nice away trip to escape miserable Scottish winter for a bit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40122015

Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:13 pm
by gowrie
If it were any other sport I'd laugh at that and think there'd be no way the people at the top are stupid enough to go through with such a SteveWalsh idea. But I'm actually slightly worried that it's actually real.

Honestly, what braindead idiot saw the Cheetahs getting booted for being too poor and uncompetitive for Super Rugby and thought "I know! Let's graft them onto a league thousands of km away, playing teams they've never heard of!".

Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:20 pm
by Frenchy
Not seeing the benefits here.

Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:46 pm
by Rico
Doesn't seem a particularly sensible idea. In fairness though, not sure why we're willing to countenance playing Russian teams in Siberia in the Challenge Cup, but not Yank or Saffer teams in the league.

Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:41 pm
by The Feral Goat
Agree with Gowries point re quality, historically they have not been the best and the Pro12 needs to be more competitive across the board rather than having another Italian/Dragons/Edinburgh in the league.

I assume this is a money related proposal but I don’t see how it would generate the significant increase in revenue that the league is looking for especially if any current revenue would by diluted as well, yes it is an SA team and a new market but it would be competing with Super Rugby for TV viewers so perhaps of limited appeal both here and in SA.

Travel, assuming they would remain SA based I don’t think it would be a major issue or financial burden for each of the current Pro12 teams to travel to SA once a season and hopefully the scheduling would be sensible eg Edinburgh and Glasgow playing in SA back to back weeks so fans may make a trip and take in both games. There is obvious expense for them to travel North regularly and SA rugby is not exactly flush with cash, but I guess they could schedule a block of home games then block of away games.

It is difficult to see what if any benefits there addition would bring. I think the Aviva Prem were looking to do something with SA teams and this perhaps has a whiff of a move by the Pro12 to get in before they do possibly without it being fully thought though…

Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:56 pm
by dolf_lundgren
Purely commercial. There are a lot of ex-pat Saffers in the Uk who may want to go to games or watch on subscription tv. Similarly the games may be at a better time for tv audiences in SA.

Ive no idea how it would all stack up, the key point will be they need to be competitive, given the number of saffer players in the NH at the moment they no doubt have the quality available it is whether they can afford to pay them. Anyone have any idea of their playing budget and how the tv deal stacks up against the Pro 12?

Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:44 pm
by Friday Knight Lights
The Feral Goat wrote:Agree with Gowries point re quality, historically they have not been the best and the Pro12 needs to be more competitive across the board rather than having another Italian/Dragons/Edinburgh in the league.

I assume this is a money related proposal but I don’t see how it would generate the significant increase in revenue that the league is looking for especially if any current revenue would by diluted as well, yes it is an SA team and a new market but it would be competing with Super Rugby for TV viewers so perhaps of limited appeal both here and in SA.

Travel, assuming they would remain SA based I don’t think it would be a major issue or financial burden for each of the current Pro12 teams to travel to SA once a season and hopefully the scheduling would be sensible eg Edinburgh and Glasgow playing in SA back to back weeks so fans may make a trip and take in both games. There is obvious expense for them to travel North regularly and SA rugby is not exactly flush with cash, but I guess they could schedule a block of home games then block of away games.

It is difficult to see what if any benefits there addition would bring. I think the Aviva Prem were looking to do something with SA teams and this perhaps has a whiff of a move by the Pro12 to get in before they do possibly without it being fully thought though…


Not really, the Super Rugby season starts at the end of our season and ends a month or so before ours begins - wouldn't be directly competing with Super rugby but Currie Cup.

I'm interested how this will work in regards to Champions Cup/Challenge Cup.

Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:19 am
by hp18
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
The Feral Goat wrote:Agree with Gowries point re quality, historically they have not been the best and the Pro12 needs to be more competitive across the board rather than having another Italian/Dragons/Edinburgh in the league.

I assume this is a money related proposal but I don’t see how it would generate the significant increase in revenue that the league is looking for especially if any current revenue would by diluted as well, yes it is an SA team and a new market but it would be competing with Super Rugby for TV viewers so perhaps of limited appeal both here and in SA.

Travel, assuming they would remain SA based I don’t think it would be a major issue or financial burden for each of the current Pro12 teams to travel to SA once a season and hopefully the scheduling would be sensible eg Edinburgh and Glasgow playing in SA back to back weeks so fans may make a trip and take in both games. There is obvious expense for them to travel North regularly and SA rugby is not exactly flush with cash, but I guess they could schedule a block of home games then block of away games.

It is difficult to see what if any benefits there addition would bring. I think the Aviva Prem were looking to do something with SA teams and this perhaps has a whiff of a move by the Pro12 to get in before they do possibly without it being fully thought though…


Not really, the Super Rugby season starts at the end of our season and ends a month or so before ours begins - wouldn't be directly competing with Super rugby but Currie Cup.

I'm interested how this will work in regards to Champions Cup/Challenge Cup.

It starts in february.

Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:18 am
by The Feral Goat
I meant more in terms of selling it to an SA TV network, how much appeal/value is there in one relatively poorly supported SA team in the distant Pro12 league to make a TV co to stump up a decent amount of cash, unless there is some sort of SKY/BT competitive element in SA at present. Or does having an SA team in the league increase the value to the current home broadcasters and they pay more, cant see it?

Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:20 am
by joe soap
Friday Knight Lights wrote:Not really, the Super Rugby season starts at the end of our season and ends a month or so before ours begins - wouldn't be directly competing with Super rugby but Currie Cup.
.



Super Rugby would overlap from Feb to end April, with luck a bit of May :eek: ; pro12 also overlaps with start of the Rugby Championship (aka tri nations +1) first month of pro12 season. However only really an issue for games in SA because of time zone differences elsewhere.

It is an issue, but while far from the biggest problem might be the straw etc

Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:22 am
by joe soap
The Feral Goat wrote:I meant more in terms of selling it to an SA TV network, how much appeal/value is there in one relatively poorly supported SA team in the distant Pro12 league to make a TV co to stump up a decent amount of cash, unless there is some sort of SKY/BT competitive element in SA at present. Or does having an SA team in the league increase the value to the current home broadcasters and they pay more, cant see it?


these are the sort of questions that need to be addressed. If there is no significant TV money into the pro12 pot, what is the point?
I suspect there is no good answer from the pro12 whose strategy seems to be hit and hope

Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:09 am
by The Feral Goat
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40448854

2 SA teams to join 2017/18 (unconfirmed still but appears a done deal) certainly story not going away.

There have been a few articles on various SA and UK/Irish papers/websites since this first appeared a month or so ago. What I had not appreciated was that SA provide the majority of the TV revenue to SANZAR and Super rugby at present. Indications are that there is an equal split of TV revenue in this Pro12 deal.

As usual further details needed but from a purely commercial point of view it appears to make more sense than I had initially thought.

https://www.alloutrugby.com/sa-teams-queue-for-pro12/

Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:04 am
by BigD163
The Feral Goat wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40448854

2 SA teams to join 2017/18 (unconfirmed still but appears a done deal) certainly story not going away.

There have been a few articles on various SA and UK/Irish papers/websites since this first appeared a month or so ago. What I had not appreciated was that SA provide the majority of the TV revenue to SANZAR and Super rugby at present. Indications are that there is an equal split of TV revenue in this Pro12 deal.

As usual further details needed but from a purely commercial point of view it appears to make more sense than I had initially thought.

https://www.alloutrugby.com/sa-teams-queue-for-pro12/


I'd only be in favour in it if:
a) They guarantee the 2 sides in the pro 12 are not to become feeder teams for Super Rugby sides.
b) The eventual plan is for SA to withdraw from SANZAR and join an expanded pro 12.

Not sure how both of the above are workable though.

Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:06 am
by Frenchy
The Feral Goat wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40448854

2 SA teams to join 2017/18 (unconfirmed still but appears a done deal) certainly story not going away.

There have been a few articles on various SA and UK/Irish papers/websites since this first appeared a month or so ago. What I had not appreciated was that SA provide the majority of the TV revenue to SANZAR and Super rugby at present. Indications are that there is an equal split of TV revenue in this Pro12 deal.

As usual further details needed but from a purely commercial point of view it appears to make more sense than I had initially thought.

https://www.alloutrugby.com/sa-teams-queue-for-pro12/

Equal as in each team gets an equal share?

Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:35 am
by The Feral Goat
Good point, it is not clear from what I have seen if the equal revenue split would be between teams or federations. By team fairer, but by federation more favourable for those with less teams obviously.

Any idea how current TV deal is split?