Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby Fanscene on Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:48 pm

You are right, I was wrong. The England team don't have central contracts, but I have believe they will be in place by World Cup 2017. It is a major concern of Eddie Jones, and he has much more clout than Stuart Lancaster had.

What I meant was that Premiership Rugby has agreements that allow the, release of England players in preparation for Internationals outwith the permitted window. There is not the flexibility for other nations, though there may be progress in that area.

As I said, I started to contradict myself. I do believe that a main PPV (with the right amount of capital investment), could develop the league. They then should allow the other terrestrial companies (BBC in UK) to show other matches, Potentially allow them some 1st choice matches if they are derby matches. I do agree that some terrestrial would be beneficial.

I'm not being picky, but how often do you see BBC Alba rugby promoted on main BBC Scotland. We watch it because we know and follow rugby, but compared to the internationals, the promotion isn't great. Does the coverage have a positive effect on Edinburgh attendances as the viewers want to experience the product. Hopefully with RC in charge, and the feel good factor that will come with a good start it may.

So looks like the SA teams are joining and bringing £6M a year in TV revenue. £500k per team! that shows what can happen. Wouldn't surprise me if that is from the meglomaniacs channel in SA. That was where all the rugby was when I visited.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby Crichton Gunner on Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:24 pm

Agree with Fanscene on this one. The Saffies are being brought in to increase revenues, so the league has to go with the TV option that does just that. That means Sky, if possible. And I say that as someone who doesn't, and will not, subscribe to Sky. BBC Alba does a good job, but if the league is a serious professional concern it needs broadcasting that matches it's ambitions, and that's not BBC Alba.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby joe soap on Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:49 pm

Fanscene wrote:You are right, I was wrong. The England team don't have central contracts, but I have believe they will be in place by World Cup 2017. It is a major concern of Eddie Jones, and he has much more clout than Stuart Lancaster had..


you are talking nonsense, there is now way to sugar coat it.

I'll assume you mean 2019, not 2017. The RFU signed a new 8 year agreement with the premiership clubs last year (2016), with Jones in place, to give him more access to players in return for more cash. That takes them up to 2024, not that it matters, Eddie Jones will be long dead and gone with porcines flooding the sky before AP teams agree to central contracts. If you don't get that then you have not been paying attention for the last decade
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby joe soap on Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:00 pm

Crichton Gunner wrote:Agree with Fanscene on this one. The Saffies are being brought in to increase revenues, so the league has to go with the TV option that does just that. That means Sky, if possible. And I say that as someone who doesn't, and will not, subscribe to Sky. BBC Alba does a good job, but if the league is a serious professional concern it needs broadcasting that matches it's ambitions, and that's not BBC Alba.


Its what we can get. Take BBC (ie Alba,BBC2 Scotland and Wales and NI) out of the equation and what leverage do we have on SKY to pay more that they do now? Wishing something does not make a business case.

You also seriously need to look at the damage having only pay to view has done to other sports, cricket being one - and the ECB wants to get back to free to air, just like european rugby. TV money is crucial, but so is exposure to the widest audience - cutting off half the population is daft; and folk drift away fro the sport easily enough without help
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:46 pm

joe soap wrote:
Crichton Gunner wrote:Agree with Fanscene on this one. The Saffies are being brought in to increase revenues, so the league has to go with the TV option that does just that. That means Sky, if possible. And I say that as someone who doesn't, and will not, subscribe to Sky. BBC Alba does a good job, but if the league is a serious professional concern it needs broadcasting that matches it's ambitions, and that's not BBC Alba.


Its what we can get. Take BBC (ie Alba,BBC2 Scotland and Wales and NI) out of the equation and what leverage do we have on SKY to pay more that they do now? Wishing something does not make a business case.

You also seriously need to look at the damage having only pay to view has done to other sports, cricket being one - and the ECB wants to get back to free to air, just like european rugby. TV money is crucial, but so is exposure to the widest audience - cutting off half the population is daft; and folk drift away fro the sport easily enough without help


When was European rugby ever free to air?

Realistically, you'd need BBC 2 to show the games rather than Alba for wide exposure but clearly viewing figures aren't high enough to make it worth that and how many people watch Alba and are inspired into rugby? I can't imagine I'd watch rugby in gaelic if I wasn't a rugby fan, do they still do red button comms or did they stop that?

Exposure is all well and good but PPV money keeps the lights on.

Anyhow, clubs and the Pro12 need to be radical and create a 'gamepass' type model, just as TV is going online as is sport and the Pro12 have a great opportunity to sell content directly to fans rather than poor tv deals.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby joe soap on Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:39 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
joe soap wrote:the ECB wants to get back to free to air, just like european rugby. TV money is crucial, but so is exposure to the widest audience - cutting off half the population is daft; and folk drift away fro the sport easily enough without help


When was European rugby ever free to air?


when BBC held the rights -until 2003 (I think). Has been free to air in Ireland and France for a bit after that as well

to be clear, as clearly it needs to be spelled out for those not actually following what is happening, cricket (ECB) wants to get back to free to air - just like european rugby wants to get back to free to air. Not totally free to air, but the next ERCC TV deal will have a free to air games - that has been widely reported. Try googling cricket viewing numbers to see why; and the same is applying to rugby

http://www.epcrugby.com/news/36051.php#.WW8YfogrLIU
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby Tichtheid on Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:30 am

joe soap wrote:
Fanscene wrote:You are right, I was wrong. The England team don't have central contracts, but I have believe they will be in place by World Cup 2017. It is a major concern of Eddie Jones, and he has much more clout than Stuart Lancaster had..


you are talking nonsense, there is now way to sugar coat it.

I'll assume you mean 2019, not 2017. The RFU signed a new 8 year agreement with the premiership clubs last year (2016), with Jones in place, to give him more access to players in return for more cash. That takes them up to 2024, not that it matters, Eddie Jones will be long dead and gone with porcines flooding the sky before AP teams agree to central contracts. If you don't get that then you have not been paying attention for the last decade



Joe Soap is right, the main power struggle in European rugby has been between the English and French clubs and their Unions, the clubs are winning.
That's why qualification for the Heineken Cup was changed and that is why any decision in the future will be to the clubs' benefit first and foremost.
The financial strength of those clubs is why the Pro 12 is chasing more money - it's to keep players in our league. The Big Three in the SH are facing the same problem, I read only yesterday that Damian McKenzie is rumoured to be in talks with Leicester, he's only 22 and in the wider ABs squad.

Bottom line of all of this is that Bill Beaumont was right however many years ago about central contracting in England, it's how it should have been done in the first place but the horse has not only bolted, the stable door has rotted off its hinges, there is as much chance of central contracts in English rugby as there is in English football.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:03 pm

joe soap wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
joe soap wrote:the ECB wants to get back to free to air, just like european rugby. TV money is crucial, but so is exposure to the widest audience - cutting off half the population is daft; and folk drift away fro the sport easily enough without help


When was European rugby ever free to air?


when BBC held the rights -until 2003 (I think). Has been free to air in Ireland and France for a bit after that as well

to be clear, as clearly it needs to be spelled out for those not actually following what is happening, cricket (ECB) wants to get back to free to air - just like european rugby wants to get back to free to air. Not totally free to air, but the next ERCC TV deal will have a free to air games - that has been widely reported. Try googling cricket viewing numbers to see why; and the same is applying to rugby

http://www.epcrugby.com/news/36051.php#.WW8YfogrLIU


Where is the evidence that the same is happening to rugby that is to cricket?

Sky and BT regularly do free to air sports game (including the EPL) as the spratt to catch the mackerel, it's nice they let EPCC pretend it's their decision but BT 'won' the rights because they flashed the most cash and agreed to this so they can tempt people in to a full sub with a free match here or there.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby joe soap on Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:22 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Where is the evidence that the same is happening to rugby that is to cricket?

Sky and BT regularly do free to air sports game (including the EPL) as the spratt to catch the mackerel, it's nice they let EPCC pretend it's their decision but BT 'won' the rights because they flashed the most cash and agreed to this so they can tempt people in to a full sub with a free match here or there.


http://www.sportcal.com/News/FeaturedNews/106849

there was already free to air in France, and extension to the rest was what EPCR wanted this time round. They made this clear last year (it was part of the tender requirement) - and explained why viewer numbers being one issue.

But no worry, you keep on with your wee conspiracy theories.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:39 pm

joe soap wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Where is the evidence that the same is happening to rugby that is to cricket?

Sky and BT regularly do free to air sports game (including the EPL) as the spratt to catch the mackerel, it's nice they let EPCC pretend it's their decision but BT 'won' the rights because they flashed the most cash and agreed to this so they can tempt people in to a full sub with a free match here or there.


http://www.sportcal.com/News/FeaturedNews/106849

there was already free to air in France, and extension to the rest was what EPCR wanted this time round. They made this clear last year (it was part of the tender requirement) - and explained why viewer numbers being one issue.

But no worry, you keep on with your wee conspiracy theories.


Viewer figures aren't the same as participation, although I accept France is tough - England is the really interesting one as they are thriving atm it would seem with virtually no free to air games.

Not a conspiracy theory, tv deals each bigger than the last - would the EPCC accept a reduction for more free to air games....No, they would not.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby joe soap on Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:56 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Viewer figures aren't the same as participation, although I accept France is tough - England is the really interesting one as they are thriving atm it would seem with virtually no free to air games.

Not a conspiracy theory, tv deals each bigger than the last - would the EPCC accept a reduction for more free to air games....No, they would not.


EPCR have made a strategic decision to have free to air in each of France, Ireland and UK. They will have accepted the highest bid based on that requirement (and the final to be free to air is likely, hardly a teaser. Viewer numbers are relevant to sponsors and advertisers, looks to me like they see a need to maximise viewer numbers short term to attract big sponsors (they haven't got the 4 or 5 main sponsors promised to replace the singe Heinekin). They will have modelled the difference between a perhaps lower TV deal than if no free to air = and as yet we don't know yet whether the new deal is higher or lower than the old one in the UK, but the French one has been reported as higher/
It is more complex than first glance suggests.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby bignose on Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:31 pm

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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby Crichton Gunner on Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:10 pm

This has been on the cards for some time, as they haven't paid their players for 2 months. Hopefully they survive but get moved to a big city, to at least give them a chance of succeeding.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby biffer on Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:08 am

So it's official, and the fixtures will be out next week

http://www.pro12rugby.com/2017/08/01/st ... ampionship

Edinburgh are in Conference B

Scarlets (WRU)
Leinster (IRFU)
Ulster (IRFU)
Edinburgh (SRU)
Benetton Rugby (FIR)
Dragons (WRU)
Southern Kings (SA Rugby)

And the conferences will be reset every year depending on performance.
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Cheetahs invited to join Pro12

Postby BigD163 on Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:21 am

Not keen on the application of the idea.

- Conferences aren't the best IMO
- Uneven number of games
- Playing one team 3x for non welsh/irish teams
- "Please note: To maintain competitive balance the Conferences will be reset each season based upon rankings from the previous campaign." But are happy for a "7th" place to be decided on points? Why not a play off?
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