Cardiff V Edinburgh 01 Sep 19:35 (BBC Alba 1930)

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Re: Cardiff V Edinburgh 01 Sep 19:35 (BBC Alba 1930)

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:43 am

While I too remain unconvinced by Hodge I think we are perhaps being a bit over critical on here for having just managed our first away win in Cardiff in 5 years in the first match of the season.

Someone identified Cardiffs weakness under the high ball and came up with the kicking game plan, which when well executed with well placed contestable kicks, backed up with a good kick chase gave us good field position and allowed us to put pressure on Cardiff.

The backs scored a try off first phase ball which is extremely difficult these days, while a lot of it was down to Kinghorns skill and a nice “flat” pass from SHC it is not the first time we have done that so perhaps a training ground move based on knowing Kinghorns ability and playing to our strengths when in the right area of the pitch.

The stats (which only tell part of the story) show that only Bradbury carried more than Dean and Rasolea which combined with the amount of kicking I think shows we had a pretty conservative game plan but it looked like everyone knew what was happening, it was also a game plan that won us the game away from home against a team that has generally finished slightly better than us.

I am not saying for a minute saying that it is all down to Hodge but ultimately the coaching team came up with a plan that won us that game which is what we need in the first instance.

I hope that at home v the Dragons this week, weather permitting, we may see a slighlty more expansive game plan but if not and we keep winning I will be happy.
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Re: Cardiff V Edinburgh 01 Sep 19:35 (BBC Alba 1930)

Postby germain on Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:18 am

The Feral Goat wrote: ultimately the coaching team came up with a plan that won us that game which is what we need in the first instance.


Yes, and I totally agree. I'm greatly satisfied to see how we performed against Cardiff. I was really surprised, in a good way.

liveinhope wrote:For those criticising our back play remember that-admittedly post New Year-we should be able to put out a three-quarter line of:
Hoyland,Fruan/Bennett,Burleigh,Van de Merwe.
Nice thought allied to the eventual return from injury of our three international loose-head props.


Yes, but note that individually speaking, our backs were good. Kinghorn was motm, Dean did a lot of good work, Harries was busy, etc... It's just that Cardiff was way more dangerous with ball in hand, collectively. But we won it, because as say the proverb, forwards win the games. So I'm happy. Really.
We're just still a work in progress, and I'm not sure Hodge will improve our back play very much. Time will tell.
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Re: Cardiff V Edinburgh 01 Sep 19:35 (BBC Alba 1930)

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:24 am

I agree with the Goat, very good points. I think we might be so used to seeing poor attacking displays that we are being influenced by them. It was a long way off a perfect or even excellent performance, but there were some good attacking moves - Harries unlucky to have been beaten by the bounce on the rubber crumb pitch at the end and before that it was a butchered lineout on the 5m that cost us after a good move that led to Fowles being just short in his reach for the line.
Dean took his try very well, showing great awareness of where he was in relation to the line and it was his lovely dink through that Harries just couldn't gather.

Another thing I'd like to address is the criticism of Sam H-C's passing. ESPN have him making 55 passes, I've just watched the game again and paid specific attention to what Sammy did, there were three passes that were not between waist and face height and in front of the receiver, one of the three was in broken play when a fast defensive line interfered with the flight of the ball, another one sailed by two players who could and should have taken it in attack. Hidalgo-Clyne bossed the back of the ruck and shouted and ordered his forwards around like a good scrum half should. His kicking was top drawer stuff. He had a good game. I'm all for an honest assessment, but it has to look at the good as well as the bad.

Kinghorn got Motm, but for me it was Ritchie, a Cardiff supporter elsewhere said he thought Ritchie was head and shoulders the best player on the pitch.

Rambo delivered everything we were asking of him last week, Fordy needs to up his game now. He played well enough in the loose but two lost lineouts is two too many, one a squint throw and the one previously mentioned where the Cardiff player got up in front of Gilcho - it's not acceptable.
The maul defence was good though.

I want to see what we can do with Fruean, Bennett, VDM, Hoyland, Burleigh and Graham on the park, alongside Kinghorn (not all at once, obviously)

One final thought for now, having watched the game again, I looked out for Hardie as I was one of the ones saying he'd been quiet - he was immense. 22 tackles, he clears out way above his weight, he supports the ball carrier, he was there as a link man when needed. He's not as spectacular as Watson, but he put in a huge shift.

A final final thought - that team winning away in Cardiff puts pressure on the ones not there to step up when they get their chance, this is good.
Last edited by Tichtheid on Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cardiff V Edinburgh 01 Sep 19:35 (BBC Alba 1930)

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:24 am

dink

ooh, is that new?

or have we just not dinked very much before now?
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Re: Cardiff V Edinburgh 01 Sep 19:35 (BBC Alba 1930)

Postby joe soap on Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:40 am

The Feral Goat wrote:Someone identified Cardiffs weakness under the high ball and came up with the kicking game plan, which when well executed with well placed contestable kicks, backed up with a good kick chase gave us good field position and allowed us to put pressure on Cardiff. ......


spot on. We will not get the luxury very often of playing against a full back less keen to get tackled as he catches the ball as Morgan - seemed keen to miss it a few times TBH. But you see the weakness and target it as hard as you can.

It should be easy enough to spot and target weaknesses in Dragons next weak, and the players should be able to execute that as well. The real test comes when Edin play opposition without such glaring weaknesses. All teams have a weakness, but very few indeed as obvious and easy to exploit as Cardiff's on Friday night
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Re: Cardiff V Edinburgh 01 Sep 19:35 (BBC Alba 1930)

Postby EWT spoons on Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:09 pm

Just on SHC, I thought he had a decent game, but some of his passing from the base of the ruck wasn’t the best. There were a number of passes which had the ball spinning from top to bottom (topspin) which whilst the majority would have been at a decent height, are still not the easiest to catch.

Plus he did that weird thing of picking the ball up at the ruck and putting it back in again, unless the rules have changed and I’ve just missed that, then had the Cardiff players noticed they could have come round and taken it from him.

Not saying he had a bad game, (although you could question the pass for the first try as it was forward and had Clancy/his assistants been half decent and noticed, then that try could have been ruled out, when a flat/back pass would probably have still got to Kinghorn, so he could have butchered that opportunity). I think he had an ok game, but not great by any stretch.
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Re: Cardiff V Edinburgh 01 Sep 19:35 (BBC Alba 1930)

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:25 pm

EWT spoons wrote:Just on SHC, I thought he had a decent game, but some of his passing from the base of the ruck wasn’t the best. There were a number of passes which had the ball spinning from top to bottom (topspin) which whilst the majority would have been at a decent height, are still not the easiest to catch.


I noticed Fowles doing that, but not SH-C.

Plus he did that weird thing of picking the ball up at the ruck and putting it back in again, unless the rules have changed and I’ve just missed that, then had the Cardiff players noticed they could have come round and taken it from him.


Clancy could clearly be heard saying "it's not out"
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Re: Cardiff V Edinburgh 01 Sep 19:35 (BBC Alba 1930)

Postby EWT spoons on Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:32 pm

Tichtheid wrote:
EWT spoons wrote:Just on SHC, I thought he had a decent game, but some of his passing from the base of the ruck wasn’t the best. There were a number of passes which had the ball spinning from top to bottom (topspin) which whilst the majority would have been at a decent height, are still not the easiest to catch.


I noticed Fowles doing that, but not SH-C.

Plus he did that weird thing of picking the ball up at the ruck and putting it back in again, unless the rules have changed and I’ve just missed that, then had the Cardiff players noticed they could have come round and taken it from him.


Clancy could clearly be heard saying "it's not out"


I didn't notice Fowles doing it, but certainly SHC did, not saying Fowles didn't as well, just I know SHC did.

Clancy's clueless, with another ref he's likely to put himself in trouble. As I say unless the latest changes have made that acceptable, but as far as I'm aware it's not.
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Re: Cardiff V Edinburgh 01 Sep 19:35 (BBC Alba 1930)

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:37 pm

I watched the game again this morning, I didn't see Sam H-C doing it at all. Fowles came on around the hour mark and made that sort of pass at least twice.

As for the base of the ruck thing, every scrum half does that now, some even tap the ball back into the ruck with their foot. Sometimes the ball hits off their own players, meaning they are all offside, but it's never picked up on
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Re: Cardiff V Edinburgh 01 Sep 19:35 (BBC Alba 1930)

Postby EWT spoons on Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:53 pm

Tichtheid wrote:I watched the game again this morning, I didn't see Sam H-C doing it at all. Fowles came on around the hour mark and made that sort of pass at least twice.

As for the base of the ruck thing, every scrum half does that now, some even tap the ball back into the ruck with their foot. Sometimes the ball hits off their own players, meaning they are all offside, but it's never picked up on



I'll watch it again tonight, but I'm certain SHC did it too, but happy to be corrected if he didn't. But I'm sure it happened a couple of times at least in the first half.

Using their feet is fine, it's the fact he picks it up and then puts it back in again, I've not seen any scrum half doing that, feet etc to move the ball around totally acceptable, but not picking up and putting back down again.
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Re: Cardiff V Edinburgh 01 Sep 19:35 (BBC Alba 1930)

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:25 pm

EWT spoons wrote:

I'll watch it again tonight, but I'm certain SHC did it too, but happy to be corrected if he didn't. But I'm sure it happened a couple of times at least in the first half.


There was one pass in the first half from Marfo from the base of the ruck that wasn't a perfect spiral and a howler from Nel, but otherwise SHC was fine

Using their feet is fine, it's the fact he picks it up and then puts it back in again, I've not seen any scrum half doing that, feet etc to move the ball around totally acceptable, but not picking up and putting back down again.


It's not fine if the ball comes off the scrum half's foot and hits the player in front of the ball, but it never gets picked up on. Scrum halfs get a lot more protection now, many of them do what you saw SHC doing, he might be the worst at it, I don't know, but until he gets pinged we can't beat him up for it. If he gets pinged or caught out and changes his behaviour then it's fair enough.
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Re: Cardiff V Edinburgh 01 Sep 19:35 (BBC Alba 1930)

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:36 pm

I watched it again :eek:

Not all of it, I fast forwarded anything that wasn't us in possession. I was harsh on Fowles - there are stripes on the ball that make anything that isn't a 100% perfect spin pass look from a distance a bit like it's going end over end.

Our scrum halfs were both fine.
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Re: Cardiff V Edinburgh 01 Sep 19:35 (BBC Alba 1930)

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:50 pm

I know it is a rare win TH but is that 3 times you have watched it now? :)
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Re: Cardiff V Edinburgh 01 Sep 19:35 (BBC Alba 1930)

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:39 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:I know it is a rare win TH but is that 3 times you have watched it now? :)


Aye, three times and we're still unbeaten.
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Re: Cardiff V Edinburgh 01 Sep 19:35 (BBC Alba 1930)

Postby Frenchy on Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:55 am

Tichtheid wrote:
The Feral Goat wrote:I know it is a rare win TH but is that 3 times you have watched it now? :)


Aye, three times and we're still unbeaten.

Do we get a bonus point for scoring six tries?
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