Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby New Gunner on Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:26 pm

malkster1 wrote:
"Lets not forget our miserable display against the Italian giants Benetton when we managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory after being two tries up. This was probably a better yardstick of where we are in our development."

The same Beneton who were within a score of Glasgow with 15 minutes to play at the weekend. the same Benetton who have only had 1 bad result this season vs Munster and have beaten the Ospreys and run Ulster close. With a new coach and a few new places they are playing good rugby.

You claim to be a rugby fan but seldom comment on what is in front of you instead relying on the stereotypes that Leinster must have been poor and Italian teams remain rubbish, maybe ask Ulster about that. This pro 14 is fascinating with teams really capable of pulling off shock results.

It also looks like thanks to the Cheetahs we need to finish 4th in our conference to qualify for Champions cup.


Careful now Malkster, we don't suffer failure apologists here :lol:
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby New Gunner on Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:37 pm

doedin wrote:Happy to admit I got it wrong in that it was a far better display than I expected, a mixture of our improved performance and Leinster being under par. I got it wrong about the BP loss but correct about the most important number, the zero points we took from the game!

However lets be clear Cockerill would have planned his season out some time ago and decided to play a number of our internationalists in the first 4 games and as a result, according to SRU protocol, would have needed to be rested for this game. He obviously decided to throw them into the other games on the basis this was the least winnable. He is probably pleasantly surprised at the performance and in particular of the likes of Johnstone.

I have seen time and time again Embra put in a decent, plucky and unexpected display against a top team but fail to take anything from the game. This seems to spur some guys on this forum to suddenly decide we are 'almost there' and the misplaced optimism comes flooding back only to be dashed in the next game or two. Surely the first signs of any improvement is when we take something tangible from a game like this rather than a decent performance and some half hearted plaudits from the opposition's supporters forum?

Lets not forget our miserable display against the Italian giants Benetton when we managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory after being two tries up. This was probably a better yardstick of where we are in our development.

Lastly I would encourage everyone on this site to get out and support Scottish rugby, whatever the level, rather than sitting on their lardy DonalCourtney watching the tv. Heriots v Watson game was an excellent game in front of a decent crowd and worth having to watch the Embra game later once I got home. I suppose I am a rugby supporter first and foremost, I make no apology for that.


Why is the Benetton game a better yardstick for where we are now than the Leinster game? Does only one of them count? Is it because the Leinster game surprised you and sits less well with your prejudices and dogma?

The yardstick is 5 games, 2 wins, 3 defeats. One win considerably above expectation, one defeat desperately below expectation, 1 win and 2 defeats where we got what we expected, more or less, but the manner of achieving those results was better than expectation. Only points count at the end of the season, let's see.

I like benchmarking against last season, as it shows like for like progress, or not. So far, we've taken 10 points from these 5 games, last season we took 9. Pretty much like for like. Last season we lost at hoe to Zebre, so let's see where we are after 6 games, will be interesting.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:48 pm

I'm more bothered about the Treviso game, fronting up to the Leinsters of this world has never been the issue - it's losing to the Treviso's that RC needed to change.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby doedin on Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:23 pm

New Gunner wrote:
doedin wrote:Happy to admit I got it wrong in that it was a far better display than I expected, a mixture of our improved performance and Leinster being under par. I got it wrong about the BP loss but correct about the most important number, the zero points we took from the game!

However lets be clear Cockerill would have planned his season out some time ago and decided to play a number of our internationalists in the first 4 games and as a result, according to SRU protocol, would have needed to be rested for this game. He obviously decided to throw them into the other games on the basis this was the least winnable. He is probably pleasantly surprised at the performance and in particular of the likes of Johnstone.

I have seen time and time again Embra put in a decent, plucky and unexpected display against a top team but fail to take anything from the game. This seems to spur some guys on this forum to suddenly decide we are 'almost there' and the misplaced optimism comes flooding back only to be dashed in the next game or two. Surely the first signs of any improvement is when we take something tangible from a game like this rather than a decent performance and some half hearted plaudits from the opposition's supporters forum?

Lets not forget our miserable display against the Italian giants Benetton when we managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory after being two tries up. This was probably a better yardstick of where we are in our development.

Lastly I would encourage everyone on this site to get out and support Scottish rugby, whatever the level, rather than sitting on their lardy DonalCourtney watching the tv. Heriots v Watson game was an excellent game in front of a decent crowd and worth having to watch the Embra game later once I got home. I suppose I am a rugby supporter first and foremost, I make no apology for that.


Why is the Benetton game a better yardstick for where we are now than the Leinster game? Does only one of them count? Is it because the Leinster game surprised you and sits less well with your prejudices and dogma?

The yardstick is 5 games, 2 wins, 3 defeats. One win considerably above expectation, one defeat desperately below expectation, 1 win and 2 defeats where we got what we expected, more or less, but the manner of achieving those results was better than expectation. Only points count at the end of the season, let's see.

I like benchmarking against last season, as it shows like for like progress, or not. So far, we've taken 10 points from these 5 games, last season we took 9. Pretty much like for like. Last season we lost at hoe to Zebre, so let's see where we are after 6 games, will be interesting.


Your analysis of last year v this year is useful and I agree that the only thing that counts is points on the board at the end of the season. In that respect we are fairly static?

In terms of what I meant re benchmarking, the Leinster game was a free shot in that we were not expected to take anything from the game (we didnt) so expectations were low and the team as they often do put in a plucky losers performance. However why I think the Benetton game is a more useful bench mark is that we were at home, fielded a strong (at least on paper) team, expected a win and were two tries up within the first 20 mins or thereabouts and cruising. However the old psyche kicked in and we subsequently lost a game we could and should have won against 14 and then 13 men at the end. Lack of leadership on the pitch, lack of guile and poor decision making along with some pretty basic skills failures resulted in a fairly dreadful result. It reminded me of the Ulster game a few seasons back when we were in similar position and managed to lose to 13 men in that one too, although Hilterbrand throwing 3 squint line outs in a row 5m from their line didnt help! For me the Benneton is a better indicator of our development. We really need to turn these games into 5 pointers.

Whilst the italians have improved this season I don't believe they are as strong as some folk are making them out to be and, like FKL, I don't see why we shouldn't expect a BP win against them both at home. They will both be sitting closer to the bottom than the top of the league come the season end.

Finally I will as usual and unlike some on this forum, refrain from making personal insults against individual posters. It is somewhat belittling and indeed a bit girly for, I assume, grown men to hide behind the anonymity of a forum such as this and throw personal insults around. I had hoped we were bigger than that and had moved on?
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby gunneria on Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:33 pm

doedin wrote:

Finally I will as usual and unlike some on this forum, refrain from making personal insults against individual posters. It is somewhat belittling and indeed a bit girly for, I assume, grown men to hide behind the anonymity of a forum such as this and throw personal insults around. I had hoped we were bigger than that and had moved on?


Aw away and bile yir heid, bawbags! :mrgreen:
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby New Gunner on Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:27 pm

doedin wrote:

Finally I will as usual and unlike some on this forum, refrain from making personal insults against individual posters. It is somewhat belittling and indeed a bit girly for, I assume, grown men to hide behind the anonymity of a forum such as this and throw personal insults around. I had hoped we were bigger than that and had moved on?


Is it a personal insult to suggest you are prejudiced or dogmatic? A dogma is a principle laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true, which I suppose could never reasonably describe your oft-stated views of 'misplaced optimism' and my attitude winning us 'SFA' over the years, as dogmatic? And what did you do before the Leinster game if it wasn't pre-judging the outcome? These aren't insults, they're an accurate description of some of your points. And I'm not hiding behind a keyboard, DM me and let's have a beer to discuss Edinburgh's bright new future!
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby biffer on Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:35 am

New Gunner wrote:
doedin wrote:

Finally I will as usual and unlike some on this forum, refrain from making personal insults against individual posters. It is somewhat belittling and indeed a bit girly for, I assume, grown men to hide behind the anonymity of a forum such as this and throw personal insults around. I had hoped we were bigger than that and had moved on?


Is it a personal insult to suggest you are prejudiced or dogmatic? A dogma is a principle laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true, which I suppose could never reasonably describe your oft-stated views of 'misplaced optimism' and my attitude winning us 'SFA' over the years, as dogmatic? And what did you do before the Leinster game if it wasn't pre-judging the outcome? These aren't insults, they're an accurate description of some of your points. And I'm not hiding behind a keyboard, DM me and let's have a beer to discuss Edinburgh's bright new future!


It's standard Internet technique. 'you're insulting me by calling my opinion stupid'. No, I'm calling your opinion that, not you. It's the message board equivalent of wanting to stick your fingers in your ears and scream nernerner.
Last edited by biffer on Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby Crichton Gunner on Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:52 pm

biffer wrote:It's the message board equipped with valentine of wanting to stick your fingers in your ears and scream nernerner.


There's more to this message board than I first thought, evidently. That'll be a handy feature come February 14th!
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby biffer on Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:53 pm

Crichton Gunner wrote:
biffer wrote:It's the message board equipped with valentine of wanting to stick your fingers in your ears and scream nernerner.


There's more to this message board than I first thought, evidently. That'll be a handy feature come February 14th!


Hah, didn't notice that! Bloody predictive text.
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby New Gunner on Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:33 pm

biffer wrote:
Crichton Gunner wrote:
biffer wrote:It's the message board equipped with valentine of wanting to stick your fingers in your ears and scream nernerner.


There's more to this message board than I first thought, evidently. That'll be a handy feature come February 14th!


Hah, didn't notice that! Bloody predictive text.


Only offered to buy him a beer, not a Valentines card :lol:
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby germain on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:56 pm

I just watched the game. Quite a brave display from everybody.
The more we'll have McKenzie in the starting 8, the better it will be.
I'll be waiting for Dean at 12 and Johnston at 13. Nice to see how Ritchie is growing.
Good signs for the future. And I think it's great we've backed this outing with a victory against Zebre.
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