Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby Tichtheid on Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:34 pm

Plus points - Jamie Ritchie is quickly becoming the player we all hoped he'd be, that was a soft card, he has to live close to that all the time or he isn't doing his job.
Big Berg is becoming a very good cornerstone of the pack.

Overall no one is playing well against us - their fans are saying they performed below par blah blah, that's down to our defence.

I hope we keep the sevens guys.

As we grow more in confidence and expect it to happen, I'm sure we'll have support runners on the shoulder of guys who break the line
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby doedin on Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:38 pm

New Gunner wrote:
KenMavor wrote:Nobody seems to have told the Edinburgh team that they are due a doing.....


With the exception of Doomedin. Who was talking out of his JohnLacey as usual (see what I did there?)


I think we got zero points from that game? Lets not get into the 'plucky losers who deserved to get something out of the game' scenario again! That attitude has got us SFA but 8th place or worse in the last 3+ years. I will cheer up once we get even a LBP from this type of performance. Unfortunately this is typical Embra and the low level of standard we have when we are cheery about not getting trounced ... and not getting a single point from the game.

BTW it was a decent game of rugby at Myreside, Heriots deserved winners in a tight game.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby Tichtheid on Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:59 pm

I think it's a bit more nuanced than just results, other wise Stephen Donald is one of the best fly halfs of all time, having kicked the goal that won the world cup.

Nothing against the guy, he was a good player, just saying there is more to it than numbers on the scoresheet
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby djsxv on Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:06 pm

I've just watched a recording of last night's game and was pretty impressed with the effort of Embra. We're getting there. I thinks Cocker's got some guys in his sights who need to step up or ship out - good. Also I think that if he can get Du Preez to play as he did before his injury then we'll be looking to pile up the winners' points soon. I can remember when people used to be carried off after tackling him!
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby The Feral Goat on Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:07 am

We have seen the odd good performance over the last few seasons, particularly against the perceived bigger teams. Until we see the same level of effort and commitment as was on display on Friday in every match it is hard to get too excited with that performance decent as it was. The next run of league games, starting with Zebre at home this week will tell us more. Bit of a gap opening in the conference all ready to the top 3 we need to start scoring points in every game even if just an LBP against the likes of Leinster.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby royc on Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:21 am

That was a very encouraging effort and the team was unlucky not to walk away with a LBP at the least. Not at all convinced by Fife's try being ruled out or Ritchie's YC, both decisions very marginal and somewhat harsh.

There was a lot more effort and energy from Embra throughout, they looked a tad fitter and a lot more determined. Good to see CdeP and Gilchrist getting stuck in and starting to get back to form. The front row did well against their Lion props, very good from Berghan and Marfo and Kevin Bryce did a sound job when he came on.

Defence is becoming a definite strength and nullified much of Leinster's attack. Good positioning and line speed in the main and robust tackling. The stats have Gilchrist on 21 tackles, CdeP and Marfo (!) on 19 but all the starting forwards in double figures, which was a good shift by all. Tovey (15) and Burleigh (14) did a lot to disrupt and close down Sexton and the Leinster midfield.

There is a lot to work on in attack, there were some great breaks and runs, some better passing, but too often lone efforts without supporting players on the shoulder. That will come in time I'm sure. While all the backs bar Johnstone have come off the bench in previous games, three of them were making their first starts and three their second ones, so it is early days.

I like the way Cockerill is handling team selection, all the available senior players have now had game time (the only exception is Kennedy, who may well be injured). I think the team is responding well to that, with good performances from previously unheralded players. It certainly increases the competition for places and means nobody has a cosy sinecure any more.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby BigD163 on Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:16 pm

royc wrote:I like the way Cockerill is handling team selection, all the available senior players have now had game time (the only exception is Kennedy, who may well be injured). I think the team is responding well to that, with good performances from previously unheralded players. It certainly increases the competition for places and means nobody has a cosy sinecure any more.


Kennedy has been playing for Boroughmuir this season I think.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby New Gunner on Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:49 pm

BigD163 wrote:
royc wrote:I like the way Cockerill is handling team selection, all the available senior players have now had game time (the only exception is Kennedy, who may well be injured). I think the team is responding well to that, with good performances from previously unheralded players. It certainly increases the competition for places and means nobody has a cosy sinecure any more.


Kennedy has been playing for Boroughmuir this season I think.


From the Scotsman on Thursday, suggests he's recovering from injury:

"Last season the pivotal pairing was in continual flux with Duncan Weir and Jason Tovey swapping around the No 10 role while Fowles, Hidalgo-Clyne and Sean Kennedy, who has had injuries pre-season but will soon re-enter the fray, jostling away at scrum-half"
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby New Gunner on Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:56 pm

It might be interesting to 'see us as others see us' - 'Ruckedtobits' had this to say on The Leinster forum:

"Wholly agree with that assessment. If Cockerill can produce that performance with so many changes, he has a range of players who could produce a lot of good results this season.

The other element that interested me is who is providing the backs coaching? Admittedly our mid-field are not renowned defenders but Edinburgh's lines of running and angles of passing were a thing of beauty in the first quarter and even in the last 15 mins when they finally got some ball again, they were making the Leinster defence look slow and uncertain.

Very impressive display from Edinburgh both in attack and defence."

Now I'm not sure I'd agree completely on the attack side, but Leinster fans probably recognise attacking skills when they see them. We can't forget we picked up 0 points, but if that performance does lay down a marker for upcoming fixtures, I'd be surprised if we didn't start moving up the table.

Realistically this season the best we can hope for is 4th, maybe with a very very outside chance of sneaking 3rd...
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby New Gunner on Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:16 pm

doedin wrote:
New Gunner wrote:
KenMavor wrote:Nobody seems to have told the Edinburgh team that they are due a doing.....


With the exception of Doomedin. Who was talking out of his JohnLacey as usual (see what I did there?)


I think we got zero points from that game? Lets not get into the 'plucky losers who deserved to get something out of the game' scenario again! That attitude has got us SFA but 8th place or worse in the last 3+ years. I will cheer up once we get even a LBP from this type of performance. Unfortunately this is typical Embra and the low level of standard we have when we are cheery about not getting trounced ... and not getting a single point from the game.

BTW it was a decent game of rugby at Myreside, Heriots deserved winners in a tight game.


The bottom line is we got 0 points from a game we all expected to get 0 points from, as you and I both predicted. You don't get from where we are, to going to Ireland and expecting to win, in one step. You have to get there in stages. First, the BP by half time hidings become less frequent. Then the TBP defeats start to drop off. Then the LBPs. Then the wins. We're not even at stage one yet really, but in two away games against the top teams in the conference, we've not been horsed, and haven't capitulated. Too early to say, but maybe we're on the way to stage one, then beyond.

What you said was:

"Leinster BP win by half time and then subs come on to run game down. Cockerill saving better players for more winnable games. Off to see Heriots v Watsonians instead of watching this game through my fingers! Will watch recording with the benefit of fast forward so I don't have to listen to the p1sh commentary. We will take nothing from the game."

"BP win by half time". "saving players for more winnable games". "Watching this game through my fingers". "we I'll take nothing from the game".

Dismissive. Pessimistic. Flippant.

Well, you called it wrong on the BP by half time (or indeed full time).
You called it wrong on watching through the fingers - it was a largely uplifting, determined impressive performance that I am sure engaged all those who bothered to watch it. Frustrating, sure.
You called it wrong on saving players for more winnable games - these are the guys in possession, and I'd far rather we played the same team against Zebre than brought in others on reputation / perceived rank.

And I'm glad you enjoyed the Watsonians game, and you have the choice whether to spend your time supporting Edinburgh or ANOther. With respect though, this is a forum for Edinburgh fans.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby doedin on Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:40 am

Happy to admit I got it wrong in that it was a far better display than I expected, a mixture of our improved performance and Leinster being under par. I got it wrong about the BP loss but correct about the most important number, the zero points we took from the game!

However lets be clear Cockerill would have planned his season out some time ago and decided to play a number of our internationalists in the first 4 games and as a result, according to SRU protocol, would have needed to be rested for this game. He obviously decided to throw them into the other games on the basis this was the least winnable. He is probably pleasantly surprised at the performance and in particular of the likes of Johnstone.

I have seen time and time again Embra put in a decent, plucky and unexpected display against a top team but fail to take anything from the game. This seems to spur some guys on this forum to suddenly decide we are 'almost there' and the misplaced optimism comes flooding back only to be dashed in the next game or two. Surely the first signs of any improvement is when we take something tangible from a game like this rather than a decent performance and some half hearted plaudits from the opposition's supporters forum?

Lets not forget our miserable display against the Italian giants Benetton when we managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory after being two tries up. This was probably a better yardstick of where we are in our development.

Lastly I would encourage everyone on this site to get out and support Scottish rugby, whatever the level, rather than sitting on their lardy DonalCourtney watching the tv. Heriots v Watson game was an excellent game in front of a decent crowd and worth having to watch the Embra game later once I got home. I suppose I am a rugby supporter first and foremost, I make no apology for that.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby robdinsdale on Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:04 am

New Gunner wrote:
The other element that interested me is who is providing the backs coaching? Admittedly our mid-field are not renowned defenders but Edinburgh's lines of running and angles of passing were a thing of beauty in the first quarter and even in the last 15 mins when they finally got some ball again, they were making the Leinster defence look slow and uncertain.



Has Hodge got some Irish in-laws!?

To be fair, I actually think that our backs have been hitting some good lines off first phase ball and in general play - we've scored some very nice tries this season.

Problem is our half backs haven't been getting us into the right areas often enough and we're not composed when we have forward momentum. So far we're getting the mental side right when we're defending but not when we're attacking.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby The Feral Goat on Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:56 am

Agree with a fair amount of what you say Doedin but we can’t keep saying we did well because the opposition were poor. That was a strong Leinster team but our defence particularly the line speed and aggression was very good and did not allow them to play. Sexton kicked a lot because they were not getting anywhere against our defence for chunks of the game.

However our execution of skills has to improve there is still too much ball lost in contact, there was Kinghorns bungled clearance which was obviously costly but the other that sticks in my mind is Burleighs slice into touch when in attack. When seen from behind it looked like a good decision to kick I think we were 3 on 3 but they had no full back to cover if that either stays in play or goes into touch deep in Leinster territory it is a good attacking position, but it was sliced badly and we are back defending. We need to keep improving the skills and decision making across the team and then I think we will start to see some more positive results.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby biffer on Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:52 am

New Gunner wrote:It might be interesting to 'see us as others see us' - 'Ruckedtobits' had this to say on The Leinster forum:

"Wholly agree with that assessment. If Cockerill can produce that performance with so many changes, he has a range of players who could produce a lot of good results this season.

The other element that interested me is who is providing the backs coaching? Admittedly our mid-field are not renowned defenders but Edinburgh's lines of running and angles of passing were a thing of beauty in the first quarter and even in the last 15 mins when they finally got some ball again, they were making the Leinster defence look slow and uncertain.

Very impressive display from Edinburgh both in attack and defence."

Now I'm not sure I'd agree completely on the attack side, but Leinster fans probably recognise attacking skills when they see them. We can't forget we picked up 0 points, but if that performance does lay down a marker for upcoming fixtures, I'd be surprised if we didn't start moving up the table.

Realistically this season the best we can hope for is 4th, maybe with a very very outside chance of sneaking 3rd...


If the Cheetahs carry on their form, 4th in our conference would be enough for Champions Cup.
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Leinster v Edinburgh 29/09/17 7.45pm KO

Postby malkster1 on Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:21 pm

doedin wrote:Happy to admit I got it wrong in that it was a far better display than I expected, a mixture of our improved performance and Leinster being under par. I got it wrong about the BP loss but correct about the most important number, the zero points we took from the game!

However lets be clear Cockerill would have planned his season out some time ago and decided to play a number of our internationalists in the first 4 games and as a result, according to SRU protocol, would have needed to be rested for this game. He obviously decided to throw them into the other games on the basis this was the least winnable. He is probably pleasantly surprised at the performance and in particular of the likes of Johnstone.

I have seen time and time again Embra put in a decent, plucky and unexpected display against a top team but fail to take anything from the game. This seems to spur some guys on this forum to suddenly decide we are 'almost there' and the misplaced optimism comes flooding back only to be dashed in the next game or two. Surely the first signs of any improvement is when we take something tangible from a game like this rather than a decent performance and some half hearted plaudits from the opposition's supporters forum?

Lets not forget our miserable display against the Italian giants Benetton when we managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory after being two tries up. This was probably a better yardstick of where we are in our development.

Lastly I would encourage everyone on this site to get out and support Scottish rugby, whatever the level, rather than sitting on their lardy DonalCourtney watching the tv. Heriots v Watson game was an excellent game in front of a decent crowd and worth having to watch the Embra game later once I got home. I suppose I am a rugby supporter first and foremost, I make no apology for that.


"Lets not forget our miserable display against the Italian giants Benetton when we managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory after being two tries up. This was probably a better yardstick of where we are in our development."

The same Beneton who were within a score of Glasgow with 15 minutes to play at the weekend. the same Benetton who have only had 1 bad result this season vs Munster and have beaten the Ospreys and run Ulster close. With a new coach and a few new places they are playing good rugby.

You claim to be a rugby fan but seldom comment on what is in front of you instead relying on the stereotypes that Leinster must have been poor and Italian teams remain rubbish, maybe ask Ulster about that. This pro 14 is fascinating with teams really capable of pulling off shock results.

It also looks like thanks to the Cheetahs we need to finish 4th in our conference to qualify for Champions cup.
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