Edinburgh vs Zebre

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Re: Edinburgh vs Zebre

Postby joe soap on Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:02 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote: I think as time goes on the more obvious it is the Connacht result was a bit of a world cup year fluke as they weren't nearly that good pre 2015 and haven't got near it since. They had the luxury of a good side but without any internationals which is where the great sides fell down that year.


perhaps that got them to the play offs.but they beat the Weegies 2 weeks in a row then outclassed and hammered Leinster in the final. In May.
Credit where its due they were the best team in the league and the best team to watch that season
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Re: Edinburgh vs Zebre

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:02 pm

joe soap wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote: I think as time goes on the more obvious it is the Connacht result was a bit of a world cup year fluke as they weren't nearly that good pre 2015 and haven't got near it since. They had the luxury of a good side but without any internationals which is where the great sides fell down that year.


perhaps that got them to the play offs.but they beat the Weegies 2 weeks in a row then outclassed and hammered Leinster in the final. In May.
Credit where its due they were the best team in the league and the best team to watch that season


The Glasgow and Leinster sides did have a full team playing almost 2 years straight of top level rugby up to that May. It'll be interesting to see how Lam does with Bristol in the Aviva as I think he's quite overrated off the back of that.

Credit where it is due indeed, I'd love to do a Connacht. However, as a team before any of the good play was a functional and simple forward based game plan. Which they could then evolve into fluent and exciting rugby. We have nothing to evolve yet.
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Re: Edinburgh vs Zebre

Postby Tichtheid on Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:37 pm

To my mind that Connacht triumph was a brilliant example of confidence. Yeah they got a good run going when the other sides were missing all their internationals at the start of the season because of the world cup, but once they got on that run they backed themselves to keep playing the same way, keep running the ball out of their own 22, keep playing "heads up" rugby.

When it came to the play offs they were used to winning, the young guys had stepped in when necessary, everyone was on a high, the whole club exuded confidence, they weren't playing underdog to anyone
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Re: Edinburgh vs Zebre

Postby malkster1 on Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:03 pm

doedin wrote:
Wottie wrote:Got to love this guy!

“I will have to watch it again, but it’s hard to play any type of rugby when the game is, in my opinion, poorly officiated,” said Cockerill.

“When [Dougie] Fife runs 50-metres and the guy is then offside he has to go to the bin. We’ve had some really, really bad calls in the last four weeks.”

“This week there seemed to be no offside line, for the competition to have any credibility they have to sort out the officiating because I have never encountered anything like it in anything else I have coached.”

“We can all see it. We kicked the penalty to go in front then the prop is two metres offside from the restart – that’s a scrum back to us, that’s a law of the game, so why is it just ignored? It is a pretty important point in the game – why would you ignore that? Ring Greg Garner [Elite Referee Manager for the PRO14] and ask why important parts of this game were ignored. I can see it, you can see it, everyone lese can see it – but the really important person who is stood a metre away chooses to ignore it. There has to be consistency and it has to be fair.

Asked if there should be referees from neutral countries, Cockerill replied: “I don’t care, they just have to do their job properly. But will he be accountable for that performance? My players will be, I will be, will he be?”


This is straight out of the Alex Ferguson 'nobody loves us, everybody hates us' book! I suspect it is irrelevant how good/bad the ref actually was this is more about Cockerill trying to create a siege mentality in the camp and using this to motivate the players and influence refs in the future. Probably also a bit of deflection from how bad we played on the night and shifting the focus off the performance or the players. I've no problem with this approach, for too long we have been too 'nice' a team. It was also good to see a few scuffles breaking out on the pitch, usually involving Toollis. However, as other have pointed out, we were lucky the ref missed the Fruean high tackle so it works both ways. I find it difficult to accept the ref and the officials made it difficult for us to play off loading, attacking rugby but not Zebra!


The ref was shocking and pretty much not impartial, try watching the game.
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Re: Edinburgh vs Zebre

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:44 am

I find it difficult to accept the ref and the officials made it difficult for us to play off loading, attacking rugby but not Zebra!


It was not the Ref that prevented us it was Zebre by being offside all the time, the ref allowed it though.

Near the end we had a defensive lineout just outside our 22, linesman was giving the Zebre back line the mark 10m back Vendetti on the wing kept looking at him while all his team mates inside just took 2 or 3 paces forward, no action, was not clear if touchy was telling ref but nothing happened. It went on throughout the game.

However that does not explain why we switch off for chunks of the match.

Thought McInally was really good carried very well, Ritchie good at 7, Toolis pretty good, Tom Brown usual 100% commitment.

Fowles – too slow, game plan or not he has to be able to play heads up rugby and decide when to move the ball quicker a couple of opportunities wasted first half as he waved his arms.

I thought it odd Cockerill brought Weir on instead of Fruean when Kinghorn went off, Brown or Fife who have both played 15 could have gone to FB rather than Tovey.

Injuries - think Dickinson in the clubhouse pre-match said both Hardie and Watson had knocks, saw Kennedy he had his ankle in a compression boot thing and I think it was Darcy Graham sporting a pretty substantial knee brace although walking pretty freely.

EDIT: Short "highlights" on BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41538228
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Re: Edinburgh vs Zebre

Postby zt1903 on Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:45 am

Looked a fairly obvious forward pass for the first Zebre try. Fowles absolutely terrible for the second!
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Re: Edinburgh vs Zebre

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:52 am

zt1903 wrote:Looked a fairly obvious forward pass for the first Zebre try. Fowles absolutely terrible for the second!


Think Kinghorn got a hand on it, can see the ball change rotation, couple of really poor attempts at tackles.
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Re: Edinburgh vs Zebre

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:45 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:
Thought McInally was really good carried very well, Ritchie good at 7, Toolis pretty good, Tom Brown usual 100% commitment.



McInally has really come on this year under Cockers, surely has to be in the Scotland 23 for Autumn? It's also noticeable the scrum is going quite well despite his height. Ritchie too really impressed and Berghan are the 3 I've really thought have come on in the first 6 games.
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Re: Edinburgh vs Zebre

Postby Frenchy on Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:06 pm

I've barely managed to watch any rugby at all this season.

How's McInally doing with hooking? Just as well as every other hooker, in that the ball is being fed even squinter than ever? If they ever start enforcing that, he may have problems, but otherwise I can't see why a tall hooker is bad*.

*Disclaimer: I have never been in a scrum so I have no idea what I'm talking about.
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Re: Edinburgh vs Zebre

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:00 pm

Yes hooking a non-issue at present as our 9s are finally doing what all the others have been and putting the ball into the 2nd rows feet.

Agree FKL on current form McInally is surely in the 23. Fraser Brown is just back from injury but I would expect him to be up to speed in the next couple of games and probably still going to be first choice but would be good if McInally keeps the pressure on with his current form. Think the interesting choice may be the 3rd hooker in the squad. Ford looks to be second choice at ER and not really getting much game time under Cockerill while Turner was playing well for Glasgow early in the season so could get the nod plus he perhaps suits the high tempo game Townsend wants to play more than Ford.

Others I think in with a shout of the AIs - Ritchie I would hope gets in the squad but it may be at the expense of Bradbury. With Richie Gray I think still injured after back surgery there may be an opportunity for one or more of Toolis, Gilchrist or possibly even Bresler to get into the squad.

Dean has been in good form for us, he is not yet at a level to be troubling the current group of centres when all fit, but I think he would benefit from being invited to train with the squad and being around Taylor, Dunbar, Jones etc.
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Re: Edinburgh vs Zebre

Postby Crichton Gunner on Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:44 pm

Berghan does seem to have improved a lot of late. Our scrum went up a couple of gears when him and Dell came on on Friday. The other side of the same coin is that Nel's form looks to have gone down a couple of levels, unfortunately. Hopefully he's going to get back to his previous form, but at the moment he doesn't deserve to be in our first choice front 3.
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Re: Edinburgh vs Zebre

Postby joe soap on Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:08 pm

Frenchy wrote:*Disclaimer: I have never been in a scrum so I have no idea what I'm talking about.


true, and neither has TFG :lol:

For the couple of seasons the real ignored issue has been foot up by the hooker before the ball comes in. Scrum halfs throws the ball against that foot and as hooker sweeps it back he is back in pushing position. Back in the days when laws were applied its a pen every time.
This season we have a aw change pretty much making it and the squint feed legal - the scrum half must put the ball in straight (ha ha ha) but when he is putting the ball in he can be standing not opposite the middle of the tunnel but with his left shoulder aligned with middle. I other words the scrum half can legitimately roll the ball right up against his own front row and a metre away from the opposition front row.

Any scrum half feeding the second row needs his head looking, and if penalised for it sacked, it is now so unnecessary. And if a certain hooker still can't strike the ball back, same fate
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Re: Edinburgh vs Zebre

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:19 pm

joe soap wrote:
Frenchy wrote:*Disclaimer: I have never been in a scrum so I have no idea what I'm talking about.


true, and neither has TFG :lol:


:o :lol: very true I was a centre and never near a scrum either but could apply me having no idea to many parts of the game! A fine example being missing the above rule change explains why we are now doing it, Thanks Joe.
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Re: Edinburgh vs Zebre

Postby macdone on Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:47 am

Frenchy wrote:I've barely managed to watch any rugby at all this season.

How's McInally doing with hooking? Just as well as every other hooker, in that the ball is being fed even squinter than ever? If they ever start enforcing that, he may have problems, but otherwise I can't see why a tall hooker is bad*.

*Disclaimer: I have never been in a scrum so I have no idea what I'm talking about.


While McInally is 6´3, Berghan is also 6´3 and Dell is 6´1. If you put him with 2 props under 5´11 he'd find it difficult to get his foot out from under him.

He definitely seems to be better in a unit with Berghan than Nel. Hopefully Nel will be back to his best with a few games in combination with Ford and Sutherland.
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Re: Edinburgh vs Zebre

Postby Tichtheid on Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:28 am

Having to rely on tv coverage can be frustrating - does Fordy really still struggle with the strike? He didn't when I've been able to watch this season, perhaps he has in the non-televised games.

The current situation has been brought about by years of front row players trying to win penalties rather than trying to win the scrum. Thems that are in charge have become so fed up with that they avoid the scrum as much as they can and ignore squint feeds and foot up, they've allowed picking out of the second row and they ignore collapses - anything to get the game going again because even for scrum nerds like me the countless resets were boring. That TonySpreadbury about in the front row has had consequences elsewhere, policing the lineout has become more lax - straight down your own line is not straight. "Nearly" straight is now straight, blind eyes are shown to accidental offsides, slight knockons and slightly forward passes are given the benefit of the doubt - all down to how coaches and props have approached the scrum in the professional game.

This has coincided with moves to keep the ball in play for longer, but interestingly at the weekend they were talking about it leading to more injuries - there is no proven link as yet, it's early days, I guess we'll see how it pans out.
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