Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby Tichtheid on Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:07 pm

biffer wrote:Nel in training with the Scotland squad (and Fagerson). Would've thought if either was being considered for the England game they would try to get them 30 minutes game time off the bench this weekend.



Maybe Dublin is a more realistic target for them?
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby dolf_lundgren on Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:07 pm

Agreed no way Nel could play vs England without a club game. Fagerson possibly different, could bench.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby royc on Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:49 pm

joe soap wrote:
royc wrote:I had understood, on fairly good authority, that the squad bill for the Pro teams was about £5.2m each. Bit surprised to read Mark Dodson saying - Offside Line interview on Super Six IIRC - that it was £4m+. Have to hope that was a misprint or that the MD was in error, it is not much more then the poor man of Wales, Dragons, or Benetton and Zebre, and substantialy less than our main Pro 14 rivals by a good margin.

We simply cannot fund our Pro teams at that minimalist level and expect them to be challenging for honours at the top end. Cockers has a big enough hill to climb anyway in reshaping the squad and I don't see how he can do it on that level of budget, anymore then Dave Rennie can at Glasgow.

Tell me it isn't true MD :cry:


I don't recall that quote at all. I remember when he is asked about the gap between super6/Premiership and pro teams playing wise part of his response was that when the pro teams were funded to £4-5m you couldn't expect the next level to be that close. Using ball park numbers to make a point.
Also at AGM I believe Dodson actually quoted £5.1 for Glasgow and £4.8m for Edinburgh. Might have been last season but since then TV money is up (SA teams), and gate money up (price changes and sell outs in No for 3 tests), both teams have more sponsors than ever. Oh and Dodosn isn't stupid in this respect nayway


Yes, that was the quote I was referring to, viz:

TOL: Everyone accepts there’s a gap between the standard of play in the BT Premiership and the pro teams – how big do you think it is?

Dodson: “I think it’s bigger than people give it credit. The gulf is really large. You can’t have a £4-5million pro team and expect the next level to be just as good.

And yes, MD did say that the Pro team squad budgets were £4.8m (Embra) and £5.1m (Weegies). But IIRC he said that at the SGM, which was at the end of Season 2015/16. If so, that relates to squad budgets two years ago. I understand that the pro budgets are increased each year at least in line with inflation. There is also a sense on here that the SRU is backing Cockers with some additional cash.

But the above MD quote suggests not, it sounds like Embra is still in the £4m to £5m bracket it was two years ago. Otherwise he would surely have said 'you can't have a £5m Pro team...' If the budget is still £4.8m, then in fact that's a 2-year pay freeze and there is no additional cash for the team, in fact we are going backwards, which would explain Cockers needing to cut the squad size by 10%.

I think Germain's observation is more germane - is the advent of this Super 6, which is going to cost the SRU something like £750k a year or whatever, leading to the Pro team budgets being frozen in order to switch money to this club league?

The Irish teams, including tonight's opponents, reputedly have squad budgets of £6.5-£7 m. Puts our £4.8m in perspective. Cockers is going to have to be a magical wizard to win honours on that very unlevel playing field.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby New Gunner on Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:36 pm

To RoyC's point, it's even more confusing as Dodson was also quoted, when canvassing the vote to allow external investment in the pro teams, that player inflation was running at 20% per annum, which would suggest the budgets would be closer to £6 million in order to be keeping pace.

While the SRU is growing revenues year in year quite impressively, a £1m a year rise in pro team costs is quite a challenge. I suspect that the budgets have gone up since 2015/16 (not least as a result of the £500k per team uplift from South African TV, however doubt we're at £6m so something (squad size) has to give.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby royc on Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:35 pm

New Gunner wrote:
While the SRU is growing revenues year in year quite impressively, a £1m a year rise in pro team costs is quite a challenge. I suspect that the budgets have gone up since 2015/16 (not least as a result of the £500k per team uplift from South African TV, however doubt we're at £6m so something (squad size) has to give.


I doubt very much that the Pro team squad budgets have gone up at all since 2016, because the CEO says they are still at £4 - £5m. That is a fairly recent quote from him within the last three months.

The more likely scenario is that the £500K from South African TV and other new monies have been used to reduce the cost of the Pro teams to the SRU. The teams cost £8-9m each if I remember, when you include the coaches, backroom staff, club staff, travel, insurance, medical care, etc, etc. Put the £500K against that, freeze the squad budgets at 2016 levels and hey presto, the Performance Dept at Mf has its £700K for the Super 6.

I will be very disappointed if that is the case. Mark Dodson has been an excellent CEO who has moved Scottish rugby light years forward. He has been brilliant for the Pro teams, in forking out for top coaches and driving the marketing, media, playing venues, academies etc. He knows the playing and commercial imperatives of having successful Pro teams underpinning the national side.

However, dealing with the leading Premier clubs, who always assert that they should have a bigger slice of any available attention and pie, can distort things and lead to wrong choices.

All that said, the attendances at Myreside can't have helped. I am sure that the SRU's budget forecasts for the season would have envisaged a good bit more coming through the Myreside turnstiles, but the Mf-only brigade have rather knocked that, probably with direct consequences for the team's squad budget. Hey ho.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby macdone on Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:39 pm

Any news on CHH and Fraz´s injuries? We definitely need another 2nd row for the coming season. Wonder what Alex Toolis is up to.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby joe soap on Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:04 pm

royc wrote:I doubt very much that the Pro team squad budgets have gone up at all since 2016, because the CEO says they are still at £4 - £5m. That is a fairly recent quote from him within the last three months.


£4-£5m is for me obviously a ball park figure to make a point - the next level down will be less than a quarter of that - it isn't and wasn't intended to be an accurate statement of the pro teams existing budgets.
There is level beyond which the SRU will not be able to fund the pro teams as competitively as for the last few seasons - hence the plan to find private funding. That point is probably not that far away, but the all round improved finances will mean there is some room to increase budgets - currently if Cockerill is saying around 40 players, then that is surely his decision to spread his budget less thinly on a better standard of player overall, rather than spread it more thinly on more players but lower overall standard (and its a risk in itself)
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby Frenchy on Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:34 pm

macdone wrote:Any news on CHH and Fraz´s injuries? We definitely need another 2nd row for the coming season. Wonder what Alex Toolis is up to.

According to wikipedia, he signed a two year deal with the Rebels, which will run out in the autumn. Only played one game for them last season due to injury.

Murray Douglas has signed for the Hurricanes (I think) this year too.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby royc on Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:48 pm

Before too much equanimity sets in about having the squad reduced to 40, we must recognise that it will most likely be the smallest squad in the Pro 14. Only Ospreys have a squad as small as that - and look how well they're doing :lol: , but their fans seem to think the numbers will increase next season.

The average squad size is 47 but there's several with more than that - Glasgow at 49?, Benetton at 50, Scarlets and Cheetahs at 52. Dragons and Kings have even bigger squads, but no doubt they will be slimmed right down for next season, as they're at at the quantity rather than quality end of the spectrum right now.

All the Pro 14 teams have 3 or 4 standoffs, the average is 3.5. Ospreys are the only one with two at the moment, as it sounds we are going to have next term.

A squad of 40 is IMO too slender to handle the normal run of injuries and absences. But if that is all the budget will allow, no point complaining. Just hope the SRU aren't expecting big things from the squad on what looks like a bit of a shoe-string spend.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:31 pm

Where is the 40 number coming from?

Really seems awfully small.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby djphilp on Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:57 pm

RICHARD COCKERILL says the make-up of his Edinburgh squad for next season is 99 per cent complete, and confirmed that there will be no room in that group – which he expects to be around 40 strong – for Scotland internationals Cornell du Preez, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne and Duncan Weir, or for Welsh playmaker Jason Tovey.


from this article...

Cockerill confirms departures of Hidalgo-Clyne, Du Preez, Weir and Tovey – but remains coy on Scott return
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby Le Jock Sportif on Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:57 pm

Thought his comments were pretty damning on the leavers. Kind of implies bigger names to come? Mmm :?
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby djphilp on Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:23 pm

Le Jock Sportif wrote:Thought his comments were pretty damning on the leavers. Kind of implies bigger names to come? Mmm :?


you don't get many names bigger than Samuel Peter Hidalgo-Clyne :wink:
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby Le Jock Sportif on Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:45 pm

djphilp wrote:
Le Jock Sportif wrote:Thought his comments were pretty damning on the leavers. Kind of implies bigger names to come? Mmm :?


you don't get many names bigger than Samuel Peter Hidalgo-Clyne :wink:


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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby macdone on Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:53 am

Frenchy wrote:
macdone wrote:Any news on CHH and Fraz´s injuries? We definitely need another 2nd row for the coming season. Wonder what Alex Toolis is up to.

According to wikipedia, he signed a two year deal with the Rebels, which will run out in the autumn. Only played one game for them last season due to injury.

Murray Douglas has signed for the Hurricanes (I think) this year too.


Cheers. Would be happy with either of those. The 40 player chat is a concern - just look at our front row \ 2nd row shortages this year.
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