Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby Tichtheid on Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:28 pm

From an Embra perspective I'd rather have two tens who are non-Scottish qualified, we've got to be pretty single minded about improving. Our first choice pack plus reserves are already with Scotland - we have an opportunity in February to perhaps beat Munster when they are missing their Ireland guys, that is the sort of game where I'd want us to have good quality nsq players who are used to running the show.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby BigD163 on Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:54 pm

Tichtheid wrote:From an Embra perspective I'd rather have two tens who are non-Scottish qualified, we've got to be pretty single minded about improving. Our first choice pack plus reserves are already with Scotland - we have an opportunity in February to perhaps beat Munster when they are missing their Ireland guys, that is the sort of game where I'd want us to have good quality nsq players who are used to running the show.


I think there is a balance to be found. I think 2 NSQ plus 1SQ is not an unfair expectation and one that should be manageable.

We are of course assuming the South African has been signed to play 10. He may be used more at 15 and take Burleighs place as emergency 10.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:32 pm

Hickey is an exciting signing and shows we're going to keep playing an open game. Weir likely gone - just hasn't worked for him here. Tovey has been very good of late - might think there's the possibility of Wales caps? Or they see Van Der Walt as a 15 primarily?

Ideally I would hope we can still tempt an Eastgate, Lang, Hutchinson or Henderson over as there should be a young 10 at both pro teams.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby Rico on Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:56 pm

I'd be sorry to see Tovey go (if, indeed, the new arrivals do mean he is leaving).

He's not always been flawless but he's added a bit of zip and creativity here and there and he looks like he gives far more of a cr@p than Weir does.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby robdinsdale on Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:04 pm

Rico wrote:I'd be sorry to see Tovey go (if, indeed, the new arrivals do mean he is leaving).

He's not always been flawless but he's added a bit of zip and creativity here and there and he looks like he gives far more of a cr@p than Weir does.


Weir is always committed, but this season (apart from the Cardiff game) his execution has been poor.

Tovey is great when the pack is playing well and is always creative. Seems to be a decent pro to have around as well. I wonder if he has found himself a move?
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby doedin on Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:12 pm

Good that Cockerill is planning ahead and reshaping the backs squad. After the desolate years of Solomons he has grasped the problem we have had with our backs and tried to bring in some new guys. Hickey and Van der Velt look promising, Hickey in particular could be a real find. Alongside Bennet, Fruean and Van der Merwe we are beginning to build something different in the squad. Along with Graham and Kinghorn we should be able to offer a lot more in attack than we have in recent years.

I've been disappointed with Weir but still reckon he is a better player than he has shown so far and will come good. However it may be that Cockerill has made his mind up on him. Tovey does well when our pack is on the front foot and has space and time to play, against the stronger teams he still looks too flakey to me and defensively poor. I think he gets found out when the going gets tough. Having said that he played well against Ospreys in the last game but that has been more an exception rather than the norm.

I am somewhat surprised that Cockerill is not also looking at our 9s, none of whom have impressed this year. I still hope that SHC finds his mojo as he is the one 9 we have with real potential, although we have said that for a few years now. Fowles and Kennedy are both limited. Our 9-10 axis has been a major problem for some years, none of our combinations, apart from SHC when on song, have really shown any sustained attacking threat with ball in hand and haven't looked comfortable playing through multiple phases, keeping ball in hand and attacking the line. As a result of the lack of a running threat and a lateral game from 9-10 oppositions defences have just drifted out and stifled our centres/back 3. We really need a 9 or a 10, or preferably both that have a running threat in them that fixes defences and can create space. This is exactly what Price and Russell do and why the Weegies and Scotland find so much space in outside channels.

Barclay is an outstanding signing, a top class back row player, a true leader and will be excellent for us. Oh how we could have done with him a few years ago. Just wonder who in the squad is going to replace Hogg as his target?
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby gowrie on Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:31 pm

doedin wrote:I am somewhat surprised that Cockerill is not also looking at our 9s, none of whom have impressed this year. I still hope that SHC finds his mojo as he is the one 9 we have with real potential, although we have said that for a few years now. Fowles and Kennedy are both limited. Our 9-10 axis has been a major problem for some years, none of our combinations, apart from SHC when on song, have really shown any sustained attacking threat with ball in hand and haven't looked comfortable playing through multiple phases, keeping ball in hand and attacking the line. As a result of the lack of a running threat and a lateral game from 9-10 oppositions defences have just drifted out and stifled our centres/back 3.


It's a bit early to say Cockerill isn't looking. Most years, we wouldn't have announced a single new signing by this point! He's rotated between Fowles and SHC which indicates to me that he hasn't been fully won over by either just yet.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby royc on Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:34 pm

Very positive news about Hickey signing, he looks like a talented, attacking 10, which will fit the style Edinburgh is trying to play . Like every Pro side, we need 3 standoffs, to allow for injury, rotation and competition, so great to have both van der Walt (if seen as a 10) and Hickey added to the mix.

Like Tichtheid, I am not overly concerned about SQ/non-SQ here. The SRU has - quite rightly - a cap on the number of NSQs per Pro team, and I believe the cap is 12. It means 70% of Pro players must be SQ, which is a good aspirational target. The hard reality is that the domestic game, with a few honourable exceptions, is not producing a raft of contenders in several key positions - big, hard-running wingers, cut-through outside centres, attacking standoffs, dominant tighthead props, specialist openside flankers, so we have to import them, whether SQ or not. Glasgow has the max of 12 NSQs this season, Edinburgh only 7. If Cockerill is to create a winning team that climbs the league, he is just going to have to pick the best available contenders and if up to 12 of them are not SQ, so be it.

It is excellent to have 2 key renewals and 3 promising new signings already in the season, Cockerill is miles ahead of where we were this time last year! All very encouraging stuff and Embra is looking good.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby joe soap on Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:27 pm

Rico wrote:I'd be sorry to see Tovey go (if, indeed, the new arrivals do mean he is leaving).

He's not always been flawless but he's added a bit of zip and creativity here and there and he looks like he gives far more of a cr@p than Weir does.


its amazing how well Tovey has done behind a pack providing good quick ball.

Weir hasn't hit the heights here and maybe never will or could, this season he has been injured since the Edinurgh revival started; but there were many games he played where he looked like the only player who gave a sh&t. Try and address reality
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby joe soap on Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:32 pm

royc wrote:Very positive news about Hickey signing, he looks like a talented, attacking 10, which will fit the style Edinburgh is trying to play . Like every Pro side, we need 3 standoffs, to allow for injury, rotation and competition, so great to have both van der Walt (if seen as a 10) and Hickey added to the mix.

Like Tichtheid, I am not overly concerned about SQ/non-SQ here. The SRU has - quite rightly - a cap on the number of NSQs per Pro team, and I believe the cap is 12. It means 70% of Pro players must be SQ, which is a good aspirational target. The hard reality is that the domestic game, with a few honourable exceptions, is not producing a raft of contenders in several key positions - big, hard-running wingers, cut-through outside centres, attacking standoffs, dominant tighthead props, specialist openside flankers, so we have to import them, whether SQ or not. Glasgow has the max of 12 NSQs this season, Edinburgh only 7. If Cockerill is to create a winning team that climbs the league, he is just going to have to pick the best available contenders and if up to 12 of them are not SQ, so be it.

It is excellent to have 2 key renewals and 3 promising new signings already in the season, Cockerill is miles ahead of where we were this time last year! All very encouraging stuff and Embra is looking good.



the issue here surely isn't the number of non SQ, its the number in one (key) position. Cockerill needs DoR sign off on all non SQ, and that would be harder to get if he was trying to stack them at 10; hence I ain't so sure these guys are all coming to compete for the 10 jersey
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:47 pm

There also aren't any SQ 10s kicking about. With question marks at Glasgow Hastings, Horne and Jackson are probably fighting for that shirt. Weir and Heathcote haven't cut the mustard here and Cockers clearly isn't seeing Edinburgh as a development side so Henderson/Baggott/other young SQ 10 won't help as a starter. But we could use a development 10.

If I was the SRU I'd monitor Bordeaux and try and get Hickey over pre deadline for 3 year residency.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby The Feral Goat on Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:54 pm

Hickey as an NZ U20 in 2014 does that mean he can't now qualify for Scotland through any means, Van de Walt can through residency is that correct? Both 23, how old is Baggott?

We definitely need an extra 10 in the squad, would be surprised if we had 4 next season though so would guess one of tovey or Weir won't be around.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby zt1903 on Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:15 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:Hickey as an NZ U20 in 2014 does that mean he can't now qualify for Scotland through any means, Van de Walt can through residency is that correct? Both 23, how old is Baggott?

We definitely need an extra 10 in the squad, would be surprised if we had 4 next season though so would guess one of tovey or Weir won't be around.


I don’t believe that NZ U20 has ever been their second senior side.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby Crichton Gunner on Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:23 pm

I think Tovey's home is still in Wales, so maybe he wants to move for family/personal reasons. Personally, I'd be very happy if he stays, as I think he's a good 10. The signings we're making look a cut above what we've been used to, and it's great to see this level of investment going into Edinburgh. The SRU are rightly backing Cockers, and it's starting to look as if we are building a squad for Champions Cup qualification.
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Re: Edinburgh Rugby Squad 2018/19

Postby disco on Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:25 pm

zt1903 wrote:
The Feral Goat wrote:Hickey as an NZ U20 in 2014 does that mean he can't now qualify for Scotland through any means, Van de Walt can through residency is that correct? Both 23, how old is Baggott?

We definitely need an extra 10 in the squad, would be surprised if we had 4 next season though so would guess one of tovey or Weir won't be around.


I don’t believe that NZ U20 has ever been their second senior side.

That's right - it's always been the Junior All Blacks so Hickey is not tied to NZ. He's going to arrive too late to get 3 years residency by 30/12/20 so if he does play for Scotland it will be in the 2023 RWC at the earliest!
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