1872 First Leg

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1872 First Leg

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:56 am

So, who is fit? We know some of those who will be out, and there are a few who are doubtful. However, all things considered, I think we will be looking at something like;

Marfo/Sutherland
Rambo/Cochrane
Bergs/McCallum
Toolis
Gilcho/Fraz
Mata/Bradbury/Ritchie - Jamie is playing well
Watson
CDP

SH-C/Kennedy
VDW
VDM
Burleigh
Dean
Hoyland/Graham
Kinghorn

The other replacement back could be Sammy as he can play just about anywhere, but then you wouldn’t start him at scrum half. Or it could be Johnson or Fife

The backrow competition is fierce, I’ve got an extra player in there at the moment as I can’t choose and it’s harsh on Crosbie to miss out, likewise Fenton at hooker
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Re: 1872 First Leg

Postby gowrie on Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:08 am

I'd go for

1. Sutherland, 2. McInally, 3. Berghan, 4. McKenzie, 5. Toolis, 6. Ritchie, 7. Watson, 8. Du Preez
9. SHC, 10. VdW, 11. VdM, 12. Burleigh, 13. Dean, 14. Hoyland, 15. Kinghorn
16. Cochrane, 17. McCallum, 18. Shields, 19. Gilchrist, 20. Mata, 21. Kennedy, 22. Johnstone, 23. Graham

Biggest question for me is McKenzie against Gilchrist, given the way the latter's come into form, and McInally as well has stepped up as a leader and could captain the side.
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Re: 1872 First Leg

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:36 am

A really interesting battle on the cards this year and will be good to see how we perform against a Glasgow team that is unbeaten in the league but has struggled against more powerful packs in Europe should give us an idea of the progress under Cockerill who I think will have us really fired up for the game.

There are some really hotly contested positions at present which is great, it is not clear what the injury status of a few players is (don’t think Berghan has played since the Kings match is he fit/injured/rested?) and given who was pulled around HT v Krasny I think we may see the following.

Marfo, McInally (Capt), McCallum
Gilchrist, Toolis
Mata, DuPreez, Watson

Kennedy, VDW
Burleigh, Johnston
VDM, Kinghorn, Fife/Graham/Hoyland (all playing well I think Graham may get the nod)

Sutherland, Cochrane, Shields, McKenzie, Ritchie, SHC, Dean

I can easily make a case for Ritchie, Dean and McKenzie starting though with Mata, Bradbury/Crosbie and Fife on the bench
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Re: 1872 First Leg

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:40 am

Back row is really interesting. I think Watson will start 7 and Mata at 8 but it's a toss up at 6. Ritchie has had the best season and can help slow Glasgow down which is the key in defence but not a huge carrier. Big carriers are how to beat Glasgow as shown in Europe - CdP the carrying option in form but Bradbury someone Cockers clearly rates and perhaps his 'local' edge will help him get selected.

9 I have no idea - could be any of them but I'd think Fowles with SHC on the bench.

JJ will start I imagine?

Vdm Graham and Kinghorn in defence would be fun.
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Re: 1872 First Leg

Postby biffer on Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:58 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:Back row is really interesting. I think Watson will start 7 and Mata at 8 but it's a toss up at 6. Ritchie has had the best season and can help slow Glasgow down which is the key in defence but not a huge carrier. Big carriers are how to beat Glasgow as shown in Europe - CdP the carrying option in form but Bradbury someone Cockers clearly rates and perhaps his 'local' edge will help him get selected.

9 I have no idea - could be any of them but I'd think Fowles with SHC on the bench.

JJ will start I imagine?

Vdm Graham and Kinghorn in defence would be fun.


Watson has to play, obviously. It's then Mata, Bradbury and CdP in some combination. Unfortunate for Crosbie and Ritchie.

Hoyland has looked really up for it and been working hard in games, I think Graham might be rested.

Kennedy has been looking decent at 9 as well.

I don't know who'll be in the line up in a lot of positions, for good reasons not bad ones. It's great to be in that position.
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Re: 1872 First Leg

Postby dolf_lundgren on Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:44 pm

Not many easy positions, Mcinally, Watson, Toolis, VDW and Kinghorn really the only certainties. The rest there is real choice and not just because they are all average which makes a nice change!

For all Glasgow are famed for a quick game it is not inconceivable that we put out a backline which is actually quicker than theirs. Where they have the extra quality is 10/12/13, we need to make sure they don't get quick ball. I would play Ritchie and Marfo for their breakdown work.

One of the main differences this year has been the intent with which the forwards have carried, accelerating into contact rather than slowing down. If we can keep that going I think we can turn the over. If we cant get the ball it will be a long night!
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Re: 1872 First Leg

Postby germain on Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:07 pm

I think Cockerill will play that team :

Marfo - McInally - Berghan (Sutherland - Cochrane - McCallum)
Gilchrist - McKenzie (Toolis)
Ritchie - Du Preez - Watson (Bradbury)
Hidalgo-Clyne - Van Der Walt (Fowles)
Van Der Merwe - Burleigh - Johnston - Fife (Dean - Graham)
Kinghorn

If Marfo is not fit, Bryce could be on the bench at LH !
It's hard on Toolis, but Gilchrist is better. McKenzie is a key man.
In the back-row, it's very hard on Crosbie and Mata who both made strong cases for selection but Ritchie should be the starter at 6. Bradbury on the bench is more something to discuss but he could be an interesting super sub.
I prefer Kennedy to Fowles but I suspect his come back is a bit too late. And I think Sam has an edge on Nathan.
Van Der Walt is the obvious choice at 10 as he is the only available option.
Burleigh-Johnston is the coach's choice in the centres.
In the back-three, Hoyland is there just when we want to rotate the squad. I can't see him be in the 23. Harries could be ahead of him in the pecking order. I suspect Cockerill will want big wingers first, and then maybe Graham...
Edit : Bennett, if fit, could be on the bench instead of Dean. Bennett, Graham, Bradbury, Toolis, Sutherland, McCallum, that's a lot of energy, pace, strength and power out of the bench...
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Re: 1872 First Leg

Postby doedin on Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:04 pm

For me it is:

Marfo - McInally - Berghan
Gilchrist - Toolis
Bradbury - CdP - Watson

Kennedy - Van der Walt

Burleigh - Johnston

Hoyland - Kinghorn -Van der Merwe

Sutherland - Cochrane - Shields - McKenzie - Mata - SHC - Dean - Graham

Front row is competitive and I would go for the Scotland front row for continuity. McKenzie held back on bench. Bradbury is a beast of a carrier and we need his grunt to make inroads. Mata to come on when legs tire and he can make some yards off back of scrum and line outs. SHC will need to cover 9 and 10 from bench. Dean to cover centres and Graham back 3 - he wont be risked in first game.

Will be an even battle up front, we should edge it but I am afraid there is not really one of our backs I would pick in preference to the Weegie back line, assuming they played Price - Russell - Dunbar - Jones - Jones - Seymour - Hogg. Perhaps Kinghorn for Jackson who will be their 15 if Hogg still unfit but thats about it? If we keep the ball and play our game then we have a good chance but if it goes open then we would be in trouble. Would have been more of a chance if we had played at Myreside than the big open expanses of Murrayfield where the Weegie backs ran riot against the Aussies. However should be a good game with two teams who have been scoring points for fun recently!
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Re: 1872 First Leg

Postby borderflanker on Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:04 pm

Hogg is definite no for both games, Dougie Fife will either start before Hoyland or replace Dean on the Bench
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Re: 1872 First Leg

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:51 pm

Kinghorn over Jackson but I agree they have much better backs.

However - how many of their forwards would you have in our pack? Fagerson and Jonny Gray only for me.
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Re: 1872 First Leg

Postby doedin on Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:49 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:Kinghorn over Jackson but I agree they have much better backs.

However - how many of their forwards would you have in our pack? Fagerson and Jonny Gray only for me.


Agreed on those two but I would have to find a place for Gibbins, the man is a beast and has pace and good hands! I suspect we have a tighter front 5 and in Bradbury a ball carrier they don't have at the moment.

We should win the forward battle. A lot of credit must go down to the coaching team as we now seem to be able to carry the ball over the gain line and to present ball far cleaner and faster. The body position going into contact and how the player manages to present the ball is so much better than it has been in the past. Clearing out is far more aggressive too. Ok, we might find it more difficult against the likes of the Weegies and other top drawer teams but to me we look far more confident with ball in hand going into contact. Fast ball from the breakdown has only helped our backs attack a defence line not fully set.

Having said the above the Weegies have a number of young guys coming through that match our youngsters. The likes of Cummings, Smith, Fagersons x 2 and Wynne all look like the real deal. The likes of Ashe, Bhatti and Rae are young guys too. However the guy that really impressed me for the Weegies recently has been Kiran McDonald. Couple them with our young guys like Ritchie, Crosby, Bradbury, Carmichael, McCallum and Hunter Hill then you have to think it looks good for Scotland.
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Re: 1872 First Leg

Postby 02ict328 on Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:30 pm

What's happened to Bresler? Is he injured or something?

Thought he would suit Cockerel as a real grafter, happy to hit rucks and tackles all day, if perhaps not the most skilful second row.
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Re: 1872 First Leg

Postby germain on Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:56 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:Kinghorn over Jackson but I agree they have much better backs.


Seymour is a bit of a liability at the moment. So we could have a better back-three if he's playing, or at least match theirs.
They are better from 9 to 13 but Burleigh is usually brilliant for this type of games, and you never know what Hidalgo-Clyne can do.

I can't see us winning though. Glasgow really impress me, even if they are not constantly at their best.
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Re: 1872 First Leg

Postby New Gunner on Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:42 am

According to the Offside Line, Marfo will miss both legs of the 1872 with an ongoing back problem, while Jaco van der Walt has recovered from illness and will likely start @ 10. Also, Bennett is fit to play, Cockerill says he probably won't start the first game but could be on the bench.

Excellent article - Cockers really does talk a good game: https://theoffsideline.com/cockerill-ba ... to-banish/

Particularly liked this:

Cockerill selects several independently-educated players in his team every week, so he cannot be said to be blindly prejudiced against them. But, having given some thought to the reasons for Edinburgh’s chronic underachievement, he suggested that too sedate an upbringing could be responsible for the lack of killer instinct from which some players have suffered.

“It’s a nice place to be brought up,” he said. “My son is an Edinburgh-educated public schoolboy and he’s a pain in the KelvinDeaker. He’s a bit too nice, so I know all about it.

“It’s good to get a bit of devil in the team and Mark brings that. We’re starting to get a good balance of those guys in the starting team and that brings a bit of edge to us and a bit of fear to opponents, which is a good thing.”

Asked if there was still a soft underbelly in the Edinburgh side, Cockerill continued: “Oh, 100 per cent, yeah. There’s no getting away from that. There are still bits that show occasionally.
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Re: 1872 First Leg

Postby New Gunner on Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:49 am

so we may be looking like this:

Kinghorn
Hoyland
Johnstone
Burleigh
Van der Merwe

Van der Walt
SHC

Sutherland
McInally (C)
Berghan
Gilchrist
Toolis
Ritchie
Watson
Du Preez

Cochrane, McCallum, Shields, McKenzie, Mata, Kennedy, Bennett, Graham.

Some tough calls at 13 (Dean unlucky), 14 (Graham likewise), lock (McKenzie will be a good impact sub) but mostly at 6 - we have ridiculous choice in the back row, Mata and Bradbury would both be very unlucky to miss out.

My prediction is Edinburgh 32 Glasgow 19... :D
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