Edinburgh v Kings 05 Jan 18, 1935 Myreside

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Re: Edinburgh v Kings 05 Jan 18, 1935 Myreside

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:32 pm

gowrie wrote:Tons of players who have done far less than Kinghorn have made Scotland squads, some have been capped as well. Our back 3 is not remotely close to being good enough to ignore a player of his talent.

Kinghorn's massively reduced his error rate after a bump early in the season, and I can't think of anyone who's been the full article before they've been capped. Players like Hogg, Russell and Gray have hugely benefitted from being exposed to test rugby.


Indeed - I can only think Kinghorn's omissions is to make him work harder in training. Not many childhood prodigy's keep up to those high standards and that could be reflected in the mistakes he made. Even Hogg has a wobbler for a while.
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Re: Edinburgh v Kings 05 Jan 18, 1935 Myreside

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:36 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:Cockerill has spoken...


“He now realises he is an important part of the team at Edinburgh and we have a few discussions about him taking things a bit more seriously. At his age he is not young anymore.

“If he knuckles down and works hard the opportunities with Scotland and with ourselves are going to be there.

“We are a better and different attacking threat when he is on the field. He has been exceptional hasn’t he, there is no getting away from that.”


A few discussions about maturity with Cockers is something I'd want to avoid!

For all that's said about the difference he's made Kinghorn has improved from inconsistent wunderkind to unplayable. Hats off to Cockers and Hodge!
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Re: Edinburgh v Kings 05 Jan 18, 1935 Myreside

Postby dolf_lundgren on Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:55 pm

Im pretty relaxed about him not being in the Scotland setup. We know he isn't as godo as Hogg yet (may get there, but wont be easy) is he better than Maitland? Not sure, Maitland makes very few mistakes.

If Hogg is fit then I cant see him being in the squad, which is fine. The rest of the year to improve further then some games on the summer tour when there is less pressure.

I think he is good enough for international rugby but not sure a Calcutta cup game is the best place to start. If he is good enough he is old enough etc but at the same time he has to be better than the other options,im ot convinced he is yet. He will keep getting better.

On his defence, I don't think it is any worse than Hogg when he started off, his is still questioned. If Kinghorn keeps developing Scotland will have a real dilemma of how to get them both on the pitch. Id still like to see Kinghorn get more gametime at 10.
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Re: Edinburgh v Kings 05 Jan 18, 1935 Myreside

Postby joe soap on Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:02 pm

biffer wrote:The first sentence is the perceived wisdom on Kinghorn, but I think there’s been a noticeable improvement recently. I didn’t notice any obvious mistakes in the last month or two, and I think his positioning has improved markedly in defence. We have to be careful that “he makes mistakes” isn’t something that’s attributed to him throughout his career, regardless of facts.


all fair comment. Judge him on what we see not what happenned previously

But there is a lot of getting carried away hyperbole in this thread about Kinghorn. He is a huge talent, and at times seems unplayable against lesser teams. I think someone pointed out "apart from the odd sizzle against Glasgow" or words to that effect - I don't want to go as exaggeratedly far in the opposite direction, but he hasn't grabbed any games against really good teams by the scruff on the neck as yet. As yet he has been a flat track bully. When he dominates a game like Hogg can do against better teams we can get really excited. I think he can and will but he hasn't so far and still has a bit to prove
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Re: Edinburgh v Kings 05 Jan 18, 1935 Myreside

Postby Tichtheid on Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:11 pm

Hogg is first choice, no question.

However, the same things that are said of the risks regarding Kinghorn can also be said of the potential rewards. When the game breaks up and there is a slight chance against a retreating defence, who would you rather have in possession, Kinghorn, Maitland or Jackson?

For me right now it's Kinghorn.
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Re: Edinburgh v Kings 05 Jan 18, 1935 Myreside

Postby BigD163 on Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:20 pm

For me Kinghorn should now be in the squad for any training camp.

That being said, I wouldn't be against holding him playing off until the summer and starting him v USA and Canada. I'd be resting a few players for this tour. Next season is a long one that leads into the world cup so want guys being well rested.

I have changed my mind and now wouldn't have him ahead of Jackson/Maitland for the 6N. I have a feeling this is going to be a tough 6N for Scotland (tougher of the 2 year schedules, propping crisis and France have a coach who may know what he is doing). I expect wins but fear that Kinghorn could become a scapegoat for any mistakes and not being Hogg.
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Re: Edinburgh v Kings 05 Jan 18, 1935 Myreside

Postby Tichtheid on Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:22 pm

BigD163 wrote:For me Kinghorn should now be in the squad for any training camp.

That being said, I wouldn't be against holding him playing off until the summer and starting him v USA and Canada. I'd be resting a few players for this tour. Next season is a long one that leads into the world cup so want guys being well rested.

I have changed my mind and now wouldn't have him ahead of Jackson/Maitland for the 6N. I have a feeling this is going to be a tough 6N for Scotland (tougher of the 2 year schedules, propping crisis and France have a coach who may know what he is doing). I expect wins but fear that Kinghorn could become a scapegoat for any mistakes and not being Hogg.



Fair points
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Re: Edinburgh v Kings 05 Jan 18, 1935 Myreside

Postby biffer on Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:24 pm

joe soap wrote:
biffer wrote:The first sentence is the perceived wisdom on Kinghorn, but I think there’s been a noticeable improvement recently. I didn’t notice any obvious mistakes in the last month or two, and I think his positioning has improved markedly in defence. We have to be careful that “he makes mistakes” isn’t something that’s attributed to him throughout his career, regardless of facts.


all fair comment. Judge him on what we see not what happenned previously

But there is a lot of getting carried away hyperbole in this thread about Kinghorn. He is a huge talent, and at times seems unplayable against lesser teams. I think someone pointed out "apart from the odd sizzle against Glasgow" or words to that effect - I don't want to go as exaggeratedly far in the opposite direction, but he hasn't grabbed any games against really good teams by the scruff on the neck as yet. As yet he has been a flat track bully. When he dominates a game like Hogg can do against better teams we can get really excited. I think he can and will but he hasn't so far and still has a bit to prove


The game against Harlequins last year springs to mind - decent opposition and he was exceptional that day.
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Re: Edinburgh v Kings 05 Jan 18, 1935 Myreside

Postby GaryIPA on Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:31 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:Cockerill has spoken...

https://scrummagazine.com/26804-2/

Edinburgh Rugby Head Coach Richard Cockerill has stated that young talent Blair Kinghorn is now ready for Test rugby with Scotland with the 6 Nations just around the corner.

Back in October, Cockerill said of the 20-year-old: “Blair shows some very, very good things in attack and he’s got a huge amount of potential, but I think the errors in his game aren’t acceptable at the moment and would be magnified at Test level.”

However, since then the full-back, a former under-20 cap, has worked very hard at his game and has been key to Edinburgh’s recent good run.

As a result when asked about his chances of a Scotland call-up when Gregor Townsend names his extended Scotland squad next week, the Head Coach said: “Blair has been our most improved player, he has matured very well, played very well and done really well with ball in hand.

“He is not making that one horrific error every game that’s is costly.

“I think Blair is good enough to play Test rugby now because of the way he has matured in the last 12 weeks. If Stuart Hogg is not fit my opinion is that he is ready to play full-back for Scotland for sure.

“He has the potential to play full-back and if not on the wing because he is young, very quick and creates opportunities. He will only get better the more he plays.

“He now realises he is an important part of the team at Edinburgh and we have a few discussions about him taking things a bit more seriously. At his age he is not young anymore.

“If he knuckles down and works hard the opportunities with Scotland and with ourselves are going to be there.

“We are a better and different attacking threat when he is on the field. He has been exceptional hasn’t he, there is no getting away from that.”


It would 100% wrong to put him in the mix for 6n selection at the moment training squad yes
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Re: Edinburgh v Kings 05 Jan 18, 1935 Myreside

Postby joe soap on Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:14 pm

biffer wrote:The game against Harlequins last year springs to mind - decent opposition and he was exceptional that day.


not sure which one you mean as I don't remember him being that outstanding for a whole game anytime last season Hoyland on the other hand was exceptional in one game against Harlequins.
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Re: Edinburgh v Kings 05 Jan 18, 1935 Myreside

Postby joe soap on Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:26 pm

GaryIPA wrote:
It would 100% wrong to put him in the mix for 6n selection at the moment training squad yes


wrong might be too strong, but I think joining the squad is the next step for him, absolutely the right one
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Re: Edinburgh v Kings 05 Jan 18, 1935 Myreside

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:22 pm

joe soap wrote:
biffer wrote:The game against Harlequins last year springs to mind - decent opposition and he was exceptional that day.


not sure which one you mean as I don't remember him being that outstanding for a whole game anytime last season Hoyland on the other hand was exceptional in one game against Harlequins.


Both games against Quins Kinghorn was exceptional.

If it was that easy to get 1000 metres at this point in the season more than 1 person would have done it to be fair. No need to talk Kinghorn down - he is a generational talent - will he become a generational player? We'll see.
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Re: Edinburgh v Kings 05 Jan 18, 1935 Myreside

Postby joe soap on Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:57 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:If it was that easy to get 1000 metres at this point in the season more than 1 person would have done it to be fair. No need to talk Kinghorn down - he is a generational talent - will he become a generational player? We'll see.


I'm not talking the player down, I am trying to talk down some of the usual ludicrous hype on here every time the next messiah is apparently sighted. No so long ago he was touted as the life time answer to Edinburgh's 10 problem, more nonsense hype.
He is a very good player indeed against lesser teams, hence the big yardage (how many played against the Russians or LI 3rds or Kings all twice ? How many yards would a Hogg have made? Before you hype him like this, that (ie Hogg) is the measure

BTW generational talents become generational player barring injury - talent includes the top 2 inches and applying it (and no reason to believe Kinghorn doesn't do that)
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Re: Edinburgh v Kings 05 Jan 18, 1935 Myreside

Postby biffer on Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:07 pm

joe soap wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:If it was that easy to get 1000 metres at this point in the season more than 1 person would have done it to be fair. No need to talk Kinghorn down - he is a generational talent - will he become a generational player? We'll see.


I'm not talking the player down, I am trying to talk down some of the usual ludicrous hype on here every time the next messiah is apparently sighted. No so long ago he was touted as the life time answer to Edinburgh's 10 problem, more nonsense hype.
He is a very good player indeed against lesser teams, hence the big yardage (how many played against the Russians or LI 3rds or Kings all twice ? How many yards would a Hogg have made? Before you hype him like this, that (ie Hogg) is the measure

BTW generational talents become generational player barring injury - talent includes the top 2 inches and applying it (and no reason to believe Kinghorn doesn't do that)


Russians not included as that stat was for pro14. Most talk on this thread is whether or not he should be in a training squad, not pushing Hogg out of the way.
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Re: Edinburgh v Kings 05 Jan 18, 1935 Myreside

Postby New Gunner on Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:17 pm

biffer wrote:
joe soap wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:If it was that easy to get 1000 metres at this point in the season more than 1 person would have done it to be fair. No need to talk Kinghorn down - he is a generational talent - will he become a generational player? We'll see.


I'm not talking the player down, I am trying to talk down some of the usual ludicrous hype on here every time the next messiah is apparently sighted. No so long ago he was touted as the life time answer to Edinburgh's 10 problem, more nonsense hype.
He is a very good player indeed against lesser teams, hence the big yardage (how many played against the Russians or LI 3rds or Kings all twice ? How many yards would a Hogg have made? Before you hype him like this, that (ie Hogg) is the measure

BTW generational talents become generational player barring injury - talent includes the top 2 inches and applying it (and no reason to believe Kinghorn doesn't do that)


Russians not included as that stat was for pro14. Most talk on this thread is whether or not he should be in a training squad, not pushing Hogg out of the way.


Hadn't realised Krasny Yar and London Irish had joined the Pro14..

Clearly the Kings are weaker, but if you take off the total metres made in those two games and add on an 'average' assumption to take back to like for like games played, his metres will still be ahead of Piutau by some distance I'd expect.
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