Munster Play Off

RaboDirect Pro12 & Heineken Match Discussion, Referee Retribution, and Player Powwow

Moderators: pedro52, chappo, Ron, Loops

Forum rules
The Edinburgh Rugby Supporters Club is run by fans for fans. Please keep your comments on topic and treat other posters with respect.

Re: Munster Play Off

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun May 06, 2018 9:09 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:I seem to keep missing Dean in the lineout, I mustn't be paying attention! I would have thought we have plenty of options available but he will be easy to lift and have decent hands.

In the cold light of day the disappointment doesnt recede. The nagging feeling that if we do get into the situation again will we face a team playing as poorly and as devoid of ideas as Munster? Other than a couple of moments of magic they really weren't very good. We shot ourselves in the foot a couple of times and let them keep their noses in front. All ifs and buts, what would they have done if we had got 7 ahead?

Handling errors and dodgy lineout execution along with a few 50:50 ref calls that went against us were the real issue I think.

Did we drag them down to our level? Will Leinster run up a cricket score against them?


Leinster wont running cricket score because Munster are very good spoilers.

Munster aren't an attacking force but they are ruthless. We can beat good teams - see the Glasgow results. Munster at thomond are a different beast to league rugby and we'll be better for the experience

This post is ignoring next year we'll have also taken a step or two forward. This is only the beginning for this team.
Friday Knight Lights
World Cup Star
 
Posts: 2654
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:44 pm

Re: Munster Play Off

Postby Tichtheid on Sun May 06, 2018 10:08 pm

GaryIPA wrote:
The Chiel wrote:VDM carries on like that he is going to attract serious money approaches from the AP & Top 14 clubs. Just hanging on to him for the full qualification period, contract or no contract, may be an achievement.

Anybody else see Chris Dean in the front of the line out jumping slot first half ? :)



Will being an international not add a salary multiplier ?



Not only will it be a salary multuplier, but if he moves now he will need to spend five years to qualify elsewhere.

Unless he has no ambition at all to play international rugby, which I can't see any player thinking that way, he will stay with us for a while yet.

Though I suppose he could be earning a million quid per year in France and play for South Africa, that isn't going to happen, he won't get those offers until he is proving himself on the international stage.
Tichtheid
World Cup Star
 
Posts: 2862
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:51 pm
Location: Alba Bheag

Re: Munster Play Off

Postby The Chiel on Sun May 06, 2018 10:21 pm

Tichtheid wrote:
GaryIPA wrote:
The Chiel wrote:VDM carries on like that he is going to attract serious money approaches from the AP & Top 14 clubs. Just hanging on to him for the full qualification period, contract or no contract, may be an achievement.

Anybody else see Chris Dean in the front of the line out jumping slot first half ? :)



Will being an international not add a salary multiplier ?



Not only will it be a salary multuplier, but if he moves now he will need to spend five years to qualify elsewhere.

Unless he has no ambition at all to play international rugby, which I can't see any player thinking that way, he will stay with us for a while yet.

Though I suppose he could be earning a million quid per year in France and play for South Africa, that isn't going to happen, he won't get those offers until he is proving himself on the international stage.


Agree salary multiplier as an international is a factor, but availability in the 6N for an English or French team would also be worth a bit. Also we see many sad examples of careers ending in an instant. Cash in the bank now and all that.

I should be clear - I think he's a really exciting talent and I really hope he stays for both Edinburgh and then Scotland. But showing that level of talent attracts potential contract buy out - and no I'm not saying he's Nakawara level - yet ! :)
The Chiel
World Cup Star
 
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:33 am

Re: Munster Play Off

Postby GaryIPA on Mon May 07, 2018 8:38 am

Who?
'The slap is immense'

"this is not soccer"
GaryIPA
World Cup Star
 
Posts: 4323
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 10:00 pm

Re: Munster Play Off

Postby Wottie on Mon May 07, 2018 9:04 am

joe soap wrote:what was that Cockerill said " if we can get 45 blokes here who get it and want to work hard......"

How many have signed so far?


We have 42 signed and announced thus far (assuming McLelland is not on a full pro contract). Rumours are that there are 2 further signings done but not yet announced.
Bill Mata. The second coming?
"Commitment should not be commended, it should be expected really!"
Wottie
World Cup Star
 
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:57 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Munster Play Off

Postby joe soap on Mon May 07, 2018 12:32 pm

Wottie wrote:
joe soap wrote:what was that Cockerill said " if we can get 45 blokes here who get it and want to work hard......"

How many have signed so far?


We have 42 signed and announced thus far (assuming McLelland is not on a full pro contract). Rumours are that there are 2 further signings done but not yet announced.


I know Wottie, tks. I was having a fairly unsubtle dig (not at you) at an earlier statement by cogniscenti that there only going to be 40.
joe soap
World Cup Star
 
Posts: 1253
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:23 pm

Re: Munster Play Off

Postby joe soap on Mon May 07, 2018 12:45 pm

Munster never looked like scoring outside the 2 errors. Edinburgh dominated the game and failed to convert good chances. Crowd silenced, unusually so for them.
Players will be gutted to have lost that match.
joe soap
World Cup Star
 
Posts: 1253
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:23 pm

Re: Munster Play Off

Postby royc on Mon May 07, 2018 1:53 pm

joe soap wrote:
Wottie wrote:
joe soap wrote:what was that Cockerill said " if we can get 45 blokes here who get it and want to work hard......"

How many have signed so far?


We have 42 signed and announced thus far (assuming McLelland is not on a full pro contract). Rumours are that there are 2 further signings done but not yet announced.


I know Wottie, tks. I was having a fairly unsubtle dig (not at you) at an earlier statement by cogniscenti that there only going to be 40.[/quote]

Oy, the cogniscenti who said that was one R Cockerill, the rest of us are just taking his statement at face value. And at the risk of being as repetitive as you on this point, he actually said 'AROUND 40', so 42 or 43 would fit fine with that, no?

But it is not over until the fat lady sings (well probably well-built gentleman, as the DOR likely has a substantial say in things). I assume there is a decision pending on Dickinson. Last season, two players who seemed to be in the frame were let go late late in the day, Fihaki and a back, one would think to balance the books. Then Fraser opted out at the start of the season, and we were back to 43. Then maybe the SRU will dip in its pocket to give a bit of extra help, unlikely but Cockerill has a good case to make. Etc, etc.

The lady hasn't finished singing yet.
royc
World Cup Star
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 8:52 pm

Re: Munster Play Off

Postby Wottie on Mon May 07, 2018 2:01 pm

Wottie wrote:
joe soap wrote:what was that Cockerill said " if we can get 45 blokes here who get it and want to work hard......"

How many have signed so far?


We have 42 signed and announced thus far (assuming McLelland is not on a full pro contract). Rumours are that there are 2 further signings done but not yet announced.


:lol: Way too subtle for me mate!
Bill Mata. The second coming?
"Commitment should not be commended, it should be expected really!"
Wottie
World Cup Star
 
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:57 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Munster Play Off

Postby joe soap on Mon May 07, 2018 4:39 pm

royc wrote:Oy, the cogniscenti who said that was one R Cockerill, the rest of us are just taking his statement at face value. And at the risk of being as repetitive as you on this point, he actually said 'AROUND 40', so 42 or 43 would fit fine with that, no?
.


not at all sure he said that. In the article this came from the only actual quote (as opposed to attributed view by the journo) was that the squad would be smaller. If you can provide a direct quote it might help.

anyway, one might say 38-42 is around 40. At a stretch, fair enough 43. We now have 44 and Cockerill mentioned 45 on Saturday. Should I take him at face value now or back in a non-quote in Feb?
joe soap
World Cup Star
 
Posts: 1253
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:23 pm

Re: Munster Play Off

Postby New Gunner on Mon May 07, 2018 6:41 pm

joe soap wrote:
royc wrote:Oy, the cogniscenti who said that was one R Cockerill, the rest of us are just taking his statement at face value. And at the risk of being as repetitive as you on this point, he actually said 'AROUND 40', so 42 or 43 would fit fine with that, no?
.


not at all sure he said that. In the article this came from the only actual quote (as opposed to attributed view by the journo) was that the squad would be smaller. If you can provide a direct quote it might help.

anyway, one might say 38-42 is around 40. At a stretch, fair enough 43. We now have 44 and Cockerill mentioned 45 on Saturday. Should I take him at face value now or back in a non-quote in Feb?


I had very similar recollection to RoyC, Cockers definitely talked in terms of a squad size of around 40. Can't find the quote, but I was thinking the same before I read Roy's post. Maybe it was a TV or radio interview, who knows. Anyway, if I did find the quote Joe would just reply that it was Rob Robertson talking nonsense again, so what's the point?

Since Cockers talked about a smaller squad size, several things have changed that may or may not have affected his budget. A higher league placing than expected (presumably league 'prize money' varies depending on where you finish); the new TV deal has been announced with a significant uplift in cash per club; a share of the Munster play-off gate (whether or not less than it might have been, definitely more than budget); Champions Cup forward revenues (previously not budgeted, not sure how / when that comes into the mix). All of these factors have the potential to impact on the playing budget, so not unrealistic to think he could be looking at a larger squad than envisaged in Feb, or earlier.

As mentioned, none of us know whether Dickinson maybe about to retire. Nor has anything been announced around Freuan officially. We don't have to pay for Myreside, temp stands etc - and we don't know what is / isn't committed in terms of alternative pitch spend next season. To pick Joe's point about Scotland squad, maybe he now has more cash based on an expectation that he will need to have more backup for international call-ups than was expected earlier in the season.

There are multiple variables to consider, and with the best will in the world none of us can do any more than speculate as to their impact. In the meantime, maybe Cockers was looking at a squad of 40ish in Feb. Maybe now he's looking at 45, as a result of a number of developments affecting club finances. It doesn't mean that some Joe condescendingly calls 'cognoscenti' were wrong.
New Gunner
World Cup Star
 
Posts: 618
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:53 pm

Re: Munster Play Off

Postby GaryIPA on Mon May 07, 2018 7:47 pm

Not sure 1 or 2 players is worth getting excited about. I have doubts we’ll see Dickinson again unfortunately. However if we do I suspect his next injury will be his last. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with Ford too. He’ll need to go some to get back in the frame
'The slap is immense'

"this is not soccer"
GaryIPA
World Cup Star
 
Posts: 4323
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 10:00 pm

Re: Munster Play Off

Postby joe soap on Mon May 07, 2018 7:53 pm

New Gunner wrote:I had very similar recollection to RoyC, Cockers definitely talked in terms of a squad size of around 40. Can't find the quote, but I was thinking the same before I read Roy's post. Maybe it was a TV or radio interview, who knows. Anyway, if I did find the quote Joe would just reply that it was Rob Robertson talking nonsense again, so what's the point?

Since Cockers talked about a smaller squad size, several things have changed that may or may not have affected his budget. A higher league placing than expected (presumably league 'prize money' varies depending on where you finish); the new TV deal has been announced with a significant uplift in cash per club; a share of the Munster play-off gate (whether or not less than it might have been, definitely more than budget); Champions Cup forward revenues (previously not budgeted, not sure how / when that comes into the mix). All of these factors have the potential to impact on the playing budget, so not unrealistic to think he could be looking at a larger squad than envisaged in Feb, or earlier.

As mentioned, none of us know whether Dickinson maybe about to retire. Nor has anything been announced around Freuan officially. We don't have to pay for Myreside, temp stands etc - and we don't know what is / isn't committed in terms of alternative pitch spend next season. To pick Joe's point about Scotland squad, maybe he now has more cash based on an expectation that he will need to have more backup for international call-ups than was expected earlier in the season.

There are multiple variables to consider, and with the best will in the world none of us can do any more than speculate as to their impact. In the meantime, maybe Cockers was looking at a squad of 40ish in Feb. Maybe now he's looking at 45, as a result of a number of developments affecting club finances. It doesn't mean that some Joe condescendingly calls 'cognoscenti' were wrong.


find the quote and I'll read it and concede if I'm wrong. The only source in this tread is a piece by Barnes in The Offside Line, as described in my last post.
And of course things may have changed in a couple of months, I said as much above. But anyone who seriously thought Edinburgh were going into next season with around 40 players was deluding themselves. What we had here was a couple of posters asserting that and it became accepted fact, and they defended it as if handed down from Cockerill on a tablet of stone. I'm more than happy to cut Cockerill some slack and not hold him to throwaway lines (of which he has plenty :D
Just as misguided as declaring that there are budget cuts (doesn't look much like it to me with the signings coming in!), or that when Dodson gives ball park figure in the context of super 6 budgets, that becomes a budget cut fact for the 2 pro teams.
Some common sense and context needs applied sometimes
joe soap
World Cup Star
 
Posts: 1253
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:23 pm

Re: Munster Play Off

Postby joe soap on Mon May 07, 2018 7:56 pm

GaryIPA wrote:Not sure 1 or 2 players is worth getting excited about. I have doubts we’ll see Dickinson again unfortunately. However if we do I suspect his next injury will be his last. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with Ford too. He’ll need to go some to get back in the frame


agree with all of that.
Like you, seems very doubtful Dickinson will be back but no announcement so who knows. Just hope he doesn't do longer term damage trying to get back.
Did I read that Ford had been playing premiership rugby recently? I guess with Cochrane retiring he has a chance, but do wonder if it isn't time to move on.
joe soap
World Cup Star
 
Posts: 1253
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:23 pm

Re: Munster Play Off

Postby joe soap on Mon May 07, 2018 8:02 pm

New Gunner wrote:Anyway, if I did find the quote Joe would just reply that it was Rob Robertson talking nonsense again, so what's the point? .


its a Cockerill quote you need, not a Rob Robertson one. HTH

Since you raise it tho, Robertson was talking rubbish on that occasion, I clearly explained why
joe soap
World Cup Star
 
Posts: 1253
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:23 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Edinburgh Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 41 guests