Edinburgh v Benetton Fri 28th Sept

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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton Fri 28th Sept

Postby doedin on Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:50 pm

We are a team in transition and it showed in that game. We had a bit more about us in the 1st half and some good attacking moves came off. However our defence was poor, slow defensive line and poor one on one tackling, which is strange as last season we won a few games thanks to our line speed and first up tackling! We struggled with breakdown in 2nd half and as a result Pyrgos struggled to get the ball away. Last home game we tried to go wide too early and got closed down, this time when we were struggling we played one out rugby and struggled! we looked to be slow to get set in defence after a couple of phases.

Pretty clear that we are still working on parts of our game and getting systems in place. Still not sure about Hickey at 10 but willing to give him time to settle in. Dean is good in attack at 13 but I'm not sure he is good enough in defence. We still don't seem to have our best centre pairing worked out!

Still work in progress but I would like to see a more settled team and tactics emerge over next few games. I suspect Cockerill is not a happy man at the moment and a few guys will be soon be getting told they have failed the audition.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton Fri 28th Sept

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:04 pm

Thought it was Hickey's best game at 10 so far, he got the backs moving and his kicking is good. I'd prefer him to VdV right now as I think he plays flatter and asks more questions.

Dean at 13 makes his individual tackles but the shape looks a bit shakier with him there. However, it has to be said teams are getting wide too easily on us whoever we're playing at 13. I also think Kinghorn and VdM are look succeptible at times.

I think it'll be a tough week in training for the lads.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton Fri 28th Sept

Postby Wottie on Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:14 am

I think to be fair to Pyrgos (and Kennedy / Fowles the previous week), teams seem to be able to slow our ball down at the breakdown this season in a way that was not evident last season. The ball doesn't seem to be presented properly or the clear out isn't quick enough and they are getting hands all over the ball. It's stopping the 9 getting any tempo getting into our attack. Not sure what the problem is or what has changed?
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton Fri 28th Sept

Postby Le Jock Sportif on Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:29 am

Yeah, I felt we weren’t committing enough to rucks to ensure quicker recycling. I think that allowed them to disrupt us more.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton Fri 28th Sept

Postby Wottie on Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:46 am

Le Jock Sportif wrote:Yeah, I felt we weren’t committing enough to rucks to ensure quicker recycling. I think that allowed them to disrupt us more.


I agree LGS, it's like what England were doing at Murrayfield in the Calcutta Cup, only not so bad :wink:
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton Fri 28th Sept

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:45 pm

Wottie wrote:I think to be fair to Pyrgos (and Kennedy / Fowles the previous week), teams seem to be able to slow our ball down at the breakdown this season in a way that was not evident last season. The ball doesn't seem to be presented properly or the clear out isn't quick enough and they are getting hands all over the ball. It's stopping the 9 getting any tempo getting into our attack. Not sure what the problem is or what has changed?


Think this is perhaps where CDP is being missed he did a lot of ruck clearing. Mata on the other hand is often at the bottom of the ruck as he appears to make every second carry, I think it was 26 or something on Friday.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton Fri 28th Sept

Postby disco on Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:23 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:
Wottie wrote:I think to be fair to Pyrgos (and Kennedy / Fowles the previous week), teams seem to be able to slow our ball down at the breakdown this season in a way that was not evident last season. The ball doesn't seem to be presented properly or the clear out isn't quick enough and they are getting hands all over the ball. It's stopping the 9 getting any tempo getting into our attack. Not sure what the problem is or what has changed?


Think this is perhaps where CDP is being missed he did a lot of ruck clearing. Mata on the other hand is often at the bottom of the ruck as he appears to make every second carry, I think it was 26 or something on Friday.

I struggle with Mata and Bradbury together in the back row - especially with a specialist openside at 7. They might be the best individual players available but the balance seems off to me. Too much overlap between what Mata and Bradbury do well (and not so well). Starting Ritchie at 6 (or maybe even to a lesser extent Hamilton) would seem to give a better mix of complementary skills.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton Fri 28th Sept

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:59 pm

disco wrote:
The Feral Goat wrote:
Wottie wrote:I think to be fair to Pyrgos (and Kennedy / Fowles the previous week), teams seem to be able to slow our ball down at the breakdown this season in a way that was not evident last season. The ball doesn't seem to be presented properly or the clear out isn't quick enough and they are getting hands all over the ball. It's stopping the 9 getting any tempo getting into our attack. Not sure what the problem is or what has changed?


Think this is perhaps where CDP is being missed he did a lot of ruck clearing. Mata on the other hand is often at the bottom of the ruck as he appears to make every second carry, I think it was 26 or something on Friday.

I struggle with Mata and Bradbury together in the back row - especially with a specialist openside at 7. They might be the best individual players available but the balance seems off to me. Too much overlap between what Mata and Bradbury do well (and not so well). Starting Ritchie at 6 (or maybe even to a lesser extent Hamilton) would seem to give a better mix of complementary skills.


Agree Disco I like Ritchie at 6, will be interesting to see what combinations work once Barclay is fit and in the mix as well.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton Fri 28th Sept

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:57 pm

Fourth Benetton try is a bit dodgy watching highlights. How was it not a ruck formed? Their 7 takes out Kinghorn?
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton Fri 28th Sept

Postby doedin on Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:57 pm

Crosbie is the man for clearing out and doing the donkey work! He has a bit of an edge to him as well which we need.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton Fri 28th Sept

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:34 pm

Crosbie, Bradbury and Ritchie have a big 18 months coming up, possibly Miller too.
There will be six backrows in the 6N and RWC squads, you'd have to think a fit Barclay and Watson are nailed on. I expect Denton and Wilson will be there, which leaves two spots from Strauss, Hamilton, Harley, Fagerson and our three lads.
Bill Mata will be with Fiji, too. I may have overlooked one or two elsewhere, maybe Swinson and or Carmichael will fulfil a dual role.

Anyways, if they are not with Scotland the young trio will be seeing a lot of game time for Edinburgh, I'm confident they are capable of doing a very good job for us.

I think we missed Schoeman on Friday, his ballcarrying has been excellent and neither Dell nor Sutherland has come close to matching it. I'm a wee bit worried about Dell, tbh, he hasn't been at his best yet

As to the clearing out, Bressie was very good at that for us, as was Nasi Manu (when fit), but things have changed there in the same wat that everyone is expected to be good over the ball now and not just the 7s, everyone is supposed to clear out, we didn't really support the ball carrier with any venom, we need to up the intensity.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton Fri 28th Sept

Postby macdone on Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:07 pm

I agree Ritchie and Hamilton are tackling machines and we might have missed that. A lot of it the poor defending seems to be out wide though.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton Fri 28th Sept

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:23 pm

macdone wrote:I agree Ritchie and Hamilton are tackling machines and we might have missed that. A lot of it the poor defending seems to be out wide though.



I haven't watched the whole game back yet, but in previous games this season we've been caught being too narrow, both in attack and defence
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton Fri 28th Sept

Postby EWT spoons on Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:27 am

Tichtheid wrote:Crosbie, Bradbury and Ritchie have a big 18 months coming up, possibly Miller too.
There will be six backrows in the 6N and RWC squads, you'd have to think a fit Barclay and Watson are nailed on. I expect Denton and Wilson will be there, which leaves two spots from Strauss, Hamilton, Harley, Fagerson and our three lads. .


Strauss won't be there, he's out of favour and even when he was in favour he was never particularly good for Scotland, he's also going to be 32 next month, so will be almost 33 come the world cup. If he was Scotland captain or a standout in his position then yeah maybe, but he's not. I'd be amazed if we ever saw him in a Scotland jersey again.

I think it's too late for Miller & Crosbie to trouble the selectors for the RWC, given Miller isn't getting near playing for us currently, and Crosbie is still a bit part player. Harley is a good pro, but I don't think he's international standard. Fagerson (& Ashe) are likely out the running too as Toonie will want a reasonably settled side heading into the 6n and then RWC. I would therefore assuming the remaining spot(s) will be between Bradbury, Ritchie and Hamilton.

Blade Thomson (just to contradict my "settled chat") however, has a very real chance, depending on how he gets on (assuming he's called up) in the AIs. He's potentially the big ball carrying 8 we need. If he steps up then Wilson/Denton/Bradbury's place could be at risk.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton Fri 28th Sept

Postby Tichtheid on Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:09 pm

I was more meaning that when the others area away, lads like Ritchie, Bradbury, Crosbie and possibly Miller will get a decent run of games in the Edinburgh team, giving them a big chance to grow into first choice players*, otherwise I mostly agree with your assessment, EWT, with the caveat that Toonie does seem to like Harley.

I'm told Strauss is out of favour for off-field reasons, I have no idea if they have been addressed, in the little I saw of the Leicester v Sale match at the weekend, Denton was the better player by some distance

*By "first choice" I mean in order to move on and up we need to build a depth where we lose nothing when Watson and Mata aren't available, imo Ritchie and Bradbury are pretty close as it is.
Likewise with all the positions throughout the squad, we need to be able to replicate the kind of depth Leinster have if we are to compete seriously in two competitions and lose players to the international windows.
Last edited by Tichtheid on Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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