Montpellier v Edinburgh Sat 13th BT Sport 3 @ 1500

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Re: Montpellier v Edinburgh Sat 13th BT Sport 3 @ 1500

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:16 pm

Tichtheid wrote:
TheSmidge wrote:
The Nudger wrote:Funny one, simultaeneously really proud of the boys and raging that we didn't take our chances and win that. There's so much to like about this Edinburgh side but we're not going to truly progress until we start making better decisions in the oppo 22.

Also thought we got proper LawrenceBryce by Barnes.


That was Barnes to a T. One atrociously wrong call with the disallowed try and one with missing the band in the ruck at the end, but those two big errors can’t be allowed to overshadow his ineptitude in reffing the ducks. Time and again, they were going beyond the ball or coming in from the side.



I thought Montpellier got away with a heck of a lot of cynical play at the breakdown, a lot of hands slowing our ball down and clearing way beyond the ruck, then there was blind eye to arms around necks and knock-ons

Aye, I know, don't criticise the ref etc - MattGoddard to that, this is a business now and livelihoods are at stake, if a professional ref makes howlers then criticism is equally valid as of any professional player or coach.

I don't accept there is bias at play, but there is ineptitude at times


I thought Barnes was a bit harsh on Edinburgh at the start but I think he reffed it well overall. There will never be perfect refereeing as rugby is such a complex sport. The hands in the ruck was his TJ saying fine.

We should've won, Kinghorn should've tackled Fall, Pyrgos should've tracked the ball, Berghan shouldn't have run Bradbury's line and we should've taken chances.

And weak defence and unable to score has hurt all season.

We're a seriously good side and we've shown that. But as a seriously good side we should judge players to high standards and at key points they didn't hit them.

How good to see Dell and Nel anchor the scrums btw.
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Re: Montpellier v Edinburgh Sat 13th BT Sport 3 @ 1500

Postby Tichtheid on Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:31 pm

To be fair, Berghan doesn't have to change his line of running or step out of the way to allow the tackle to be made, it actually says so in the laws.

I thought we had enough chances and momentum elsewhere to be worth the win, as I said earlier we need to execute under pressure, when we start to do that we will be a serious side.
I'm very much convinced by our pack and our back three, including the depth there.

The middle of the park from 9 to 13 is better than we've had since Blair, Mossy and Cairns, but I'm still not sold on them - aye, that is harsh, but I think we need to be - Scott and Bennett could be a great combo, and I like Dean, maybe they will start to click, I hope so.

I'd love to see Shiel get a run soon, Darcy Graham has been our best back two weeks in a row, get the young laddies on there, gie them a go
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Re: Montpellier v Edinburgh Sat 13th BT Sport 3 @ 1500

Postby The Feral Goat on Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:40 pm

I don't think the tackler would have stopped either one of them from that range but as you said plenty of chances.

We managed to grind out tries last season, we are scoring arguably better certainly longer range efforts this season, but seem to have lost that bit of composure that won us a load of games last season
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Re: Montpellier v Edinburgh Sat 13th BT Sport 3 @ 1500

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:55 pm

Tichtheid wrote:To be fair, Berghan doesn't have to change his line of running or step out of the way to allow the tackle to be made, it actually says so in the laws.

I thought we had enough chances and momentum elsewhere to be worth the win, as I said earlier we need to execute under pressure, when we start to do that we will be a serious side.
I'm very much convinced by our pack and our back three, including the depth there.

The middle of the park from 9 to 13 is better than we've had since Blair, Mossy and Cairns, but I'm still not sold on them - aye, that is harsh, but I think we need to be - Scott and Bennett could be a great combo, and I like Dean, maybe they will start to click, I hope so.

I'd love to see Shiel get a run soon, Darcy Graham has been our best back two weeks in a row, get the young laddies on there, gie them a go


Apologies, I meant that Berghan ran the wrong line which stopped a certain try for Bradbury.

I think Hickey is improving every week - defence is questionable and VdV was terrific when he came on. I think Pyrgos is 7/10 every week and I agree Shiel should be given a go instead of Kennedy and Fowles. Thought JJ and Scott were very good today but not sure why Dean isn't getting more time after a great year.

Kinghorn is a worry in defence - can he be dropped as the others were to learn a lesson?
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Re: Montpellier v Edinburgh Sat 13th BT Sport 3 @ 1500

Postby Tichtheid on Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:14 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:

Kinghorn is a worry in defence - can he be dropped as the others were to learn a lesson?



This is tricky one, it's not his attitude, it's his technique and sometimes his placement - that is stuff you learn. Hogg took a while before he became reliable as last-man tackler (right up to before last season in fact) and under the high ball he was a bit dodgy too. Kinghorn has one of those weaknesses, he will get there, personally I'd keep picking him and keep coaching him.
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Re: Montpellier v Edinburgh Sat 13th BT Sport 3 @ 1500

Postby Tichtheid on Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:49 pm

Cockers
“I thought the players did exceptionally well today. They could’ve capitulated when it was going against them and they could’ve waved the white flag, but as you know now, the new Edinburgh doesn’t accept that and in the end, we’re so disappointed.

“We take a bonus point. Toulon won’t look forward to coming to us next week if we play like that.”


This is what it's all about, stuff being happy with the scraps of a losing bonus point, be really disappointed with the loss of four match points and the win

I hope the laddies are all really p1ssed off, big time
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Re: Montpellier v Edinburgh Sat 13th BT Sport 3 @ 1500

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:10 pm

Tichtheid wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:

Kinghorn is a worry in defence - can he be dropped as the others were to learn a lesson?



This is tricky one, it's not his attitude, it's his technique and sometimes his placement - that is stuff you learn. Hogg took a while before he became reliable as last-man tackler (right up to before last season in fact) and under the high ball he was a bit dodgy too. Kinghorn has one of those weaknesses, he will get there, personally I'd keep picking him and keep coaching him.


But after he dropped Scott, Dean and Fife for bad defence has Cockers not painted himself into a corner?

Kinghorn falling off tackles is nothing new, he's our best attacking playing player but the lack of improvement is a concern.
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Re: Montpellier v Edinburgh Sat 13th BT Sport 3 @ 1500

Postby The Feral Goat on Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:20 pm

Apparently Mcinally was ill and had not eaten much for two days but was desperate to play went as hard as he could for as long as he could, LawrenceBryce by HT :eek:
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Re: Montpellier v Edinburgh Sat 13th BT Sport 3 @ 1500

Postby Tichtheid on Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:46 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
But after he dropped Scott, Dean and Fife for bad defence has Cockers not painted himself into a corner?

Kinghorn falling off tackles is nothing new, he's our best attacking playing player but the lack of improvement is a concern.



I think he is improving, he's no Halfpenny in defence, but he is a Hogg in attack, and Hogg was never dropped despite his defensive foibles.

I played on the wing once, against Broughton 3rds I think, I was 17, and I lasted there until our winger got his late ars£ out of the changing rooms, that is not relevant of course but I read this week that Darcy Graham will learn about defensive positioning, as will Blair.

These guys are too valuable in a thing that can't be taught (pace and attack) to be discarded or batted down for lacking something that can be taught - defence.
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Re: Montpellier v Edinburgh Sat 13th BT Sport 3 @ 1500

Postby biffer on Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:05 am

Tichtheid wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:

Kinghorn is a worry in defence - can he be dropped as the others were to learn a lesson?



This is tricky one, it's not his attitude, it's his technique and sometimes his placement - that is stuff you learn. Hogg took a while before he became reliable as last-man tackler (right up to before last season in fact) and under the high ball he was a bit dodgy too. Kinghorn has one of those weaknesses, he will get there, personally I'd keep picking him and keep coaching him.


When he missed the tackle on Fall he was punching against the ground before it was a try. That’s the attitude we want. If he is that angry at himself from missing a tackle on half way with no idea if the result is important, it’s a massive improvement on the attitude from two years ago.
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Montpellier v Edinburgh Sat 13th BT Sport 3 @ 1500

Postby Crichton Gunner on Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:36 am

Didn't see the game, but by all accounts my pessimism was misplaced and we probably should have won. That's quite something, and hopefully it'll give the players the confidence that they can succeed at this level. It should give them the belief that they can beat Toulon next weekend - really looking forward to that game now. I expect us to have a real good go at them.
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Re: Montpellier v Edinburgh Sat 13th BT Sport 3 @ 1500

Postby doedin on Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:53 pm

Two defensive lapses cost us the game, one we should have won by 10 points! However an excellent display by the guys against a strong Montpellier team on their own patch. A number of things really stood out for me:

- we have two top class front rows, there was no diminution in power etc between Nel-McInally-Dell and Berghan-Ford-Sutherland plus we have the likes of Schoeman, Marfo, McCallum etc in reserve too.
- Toolis and Gilchrist put in a power of work and carried all day long into big guys and won the battle
- Back row is as strong as our front row, and Bradbury is really beginning to develop into the big ball carrying 6 we have needed for yonks. Bib Bill just makes yards and yards!
- Pyrgos is the game running 9 we wanted, he may have lost a yard or two but everything he does is good and every one of his box kicks is the right distance
- Not sure thatVdW shouldn't be our first pick 10. He takes the ball flatter and has a physical presence in attack. Hickey can be a bit hesitant at times
- We still have work to do in our midfield - its a work in progress for me
- Kinghorn and Graham are our future, they will make mistakes but will win games for us. Fife did well but we missed VdM physical presence
- we look a fit and dynamic team and as with most french teams Montpelier carry too much bulk and tired badly in last 20mins

The only thing that stopped us winning was a a lack of composure in their red zone and a bit of magic from someone. Perhaps this will build the self belief we have not had so far this season and we will have more faith in our fitness, strength and skills. Cockerill doing a good job in building this team.
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Re: Montpellier v Edinburgh Sat 13th BT Sport 3 @ 1500

Postby TheSmidge on Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:54 pm

doedin wrote:Two defensive lapses cost us the game, one we should have won by 10 points! However an excellent display by the guys against a strong Montpellier team on their own patch. A number of things really stood out for me:

- we have two top class front rows, there was no diminution in power etc between Nel-McInally-Dell and Berghan-Ford-Sutherland plus we have the likes of Schoeman, Marfo, McCallum etc in reserve too.
- Toolis and Gilchrist put in a power of work and carried all day long into big guys and won the battle
- Back row is as strong as our front row, and Bradbury is really beginning to develop into the big ball carrying 6 we have needed for yonks. Bib Bill just makes yards and yards!
- Pyrgos is the game running 9 we wanted, he may have lost a yard or two but everything he does is good and every one of his box kicks is the right distance
- Not sure thatVdW shouldn't be our first pick 10. He takes the ball flatter and has a physical presence in attack. Hickey can be a bit hesitant at times
- We still have work to do in our midfield - its a work in progress for me
- Kinghorn and Graham are our future, they will make mistakes but will win games for us. Fife did well but we missed VdM physical presence
- we look a fit and dynamic team and as with most french teams Montpelier carry too much bulk and tired badly in last 20mins

The only thing that stopped us winning was a a lack of composure in their red zone and a bit of magic from someone. Perhaps this will build the self belief we have not had so far this season and we will have more faith in our fitness, strength and skills. Cockerill doing a good job in building this team.


Overall, I think Hickey still has the edge for the consistency of his kicking, both from hand and the tee. But you are right that VDW playing flatter makes a difference, but I like that as an impact in the last 25 minutes, particularly if its been a hard battle up front and the opposition back row are tiring.
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Re: Montpellier v Edinburgh Sat 13th BT Sport 3 @ 1500

Postby Martin Bell on Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:07 pm

Agree with all that, although I'm a bit more pro-Hickey, who I've been impressed with. My own minor gripe with him is that he seems a bit too keen to clear out the breakdown for a 10.

But overall, it's all very encouraging and the boys took some more steps forward this weekend. As others have said, the issues are more about details in execution. They have a big impact on outcomes, granted, but can be fixed with application and increased confidence.

As ever, I am in complete agreement with Tichtheid when it comes to The King (and Mr Darcy). We had some defensive lapses that cost us, but Blairhorn will learn. What he brings in attack is special and with continued careful management will improve his defence. I just feel that Graham is on the verge of lift off at last. Exciting times ahead.

The Newcastle result may even, in itself, extinguish Toulon's motivation for the rest of the pool already.

Delayed match report online in case of interest: http://www.edinburghgunners.org.uk/matchday/reports
Hail to The Berghanator.

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Re: Montpellier v Edinburgh Sat 13th BT Sport 3 @ 1500

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:50 am

I think Hickey is settling in and improving as the season goes on, his place kicking is really good, which having lost SHC it is important that we have a high% kicker to keep score boards ticking over.

Agree with TheSmidge VdV coming on and playing flat and taking on the line when the opposition is tiring almost made the difference on Saturday.

After many seasons of crying out for any 10 it is a nice problem to have for once!
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