Squad 19/20

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Re: Squad 19/20

Postby biffer on Thu May 09, 2019 10:49 am

I'm expecting some further news in the back row, even if it's just short term for the world cup. If Barclay, Mata, Watson and one of either Ritchie or Bradbury are away, then we're stretched pretty thin.

I'm still concerned about cover at full back as well.
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Re: Squad 19/20

Postby liveinhope on Thu May 09, 2019 3:44 pm

I realise it is heretic to say this on the Edinburgh site but there is a school of thought that suggests entirely possible that none of Bradbury,Ritchie and Kinghorn will make the final cut of 31. Equally all three could make it to Japan.
Doesn't that show incredibly difficult it must be for Cockerill etc to plan/budget for next season given the 31 aren't announced until 3rd September? I appreciate this could apply to every club but probably much worse for Scottish clubs there being only two. Difficult to get short term cover organised that late on surely.
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Re: Squad 19/20

Postby robdinsdale on Thu May 09, 2019 3:49 pm

liveinhope wrote:I realise it is heretic to say this on the Edinburgh site but there is a school of thought that suggests entirely possible that none of Bradbury,Ritchie and Kinghorn will make the final cut of 31.


Get out.
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Re: Squad 19/20

Postby royc on Thu May 09, 2019 8:05 pm

liveinhope wrote:Doesn't that show incredibly difficult it must be for Cockerill etc to plan/budget for next season given the 31 aren't announced until 3rd September? I appreciate this could apply to every club but probably much worse for Scottish clubs there being only two. Difficult to get short term cover organised that late on surely.


I'd think Cockers will be in close weekly - maybe daily! - touch with Toonie about which players he is certain to lose/very likely to lose/may possibly lose/unlikely to lose unless injuries strike. It will be pretty evident from that what the percentage risk is in each position and thus where short=term backup is needed.

The SRU were pretty good at the last RWC, IIRC we got 4 or 5 (?) back-up players for the season and Cockers will also be factoring in what the Stage 3 Academy and 7s have to contribute. It will never be a perfect picture, injuries in the international squad may necessitate unexpected call-ups, who would have bet on Marfo getting a cap in his first season? But I'd trust that Cockerill will have it pretty much under control.
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Re: Squad 19/20

Postby JDCSR on Thu May 09, 2019 8:38 pm

We do also have some great prospects in terms of stage 3 players.

Archie Erskine is a big blindside who will have been toughened up by a year in France as will Hamish Bain who is a unit of a lock.

Boyle and Darge are superb prospects at openside.

Cammy Hutchinson is an incisive runner in the centres who has also been in France.

We've already seen a bit of Hodgson and Atkinson in the second row.

I'd quite like to see these guys strengthening the side rather than journeymen.
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Re: Squad 19/20

Postby BigD163 on Fri May 10, 2019 8:42 am

liveinhope wrote:I realise it is heretic to say this on the Edinburgh site but there is a school of thought that suggests entirely possible that none of Bradbury,Ritchie and Kinghorn will make the final cut of 31. Equally all three could make it to Japan.


Given the way Bradbury played at 8 v England particularly his carrying and work from the base of the scrum it would be daft for him not to go.

There is every chance Ritchie and Kinghorn don't go. Even though I would have Ritchie in.
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Re: Squad 19/20

Postby The Feral Goat on Fri May 10, 2019 12:53 pm

BigD163 wrote:
liveinhope wrote:I realise it is heretic to say this on the Edinburgh site but there is a school of thought that suggests entirely possible that none of Bradbury,Ritchie and Kinghorn will make the final cut of 31. Equally all three could make it to Japan.


Given the way Bradbury played at 8 v England particularly his carrying and work from the base of the scrum it would be daft for him not to go.

There is every chance Ritchie and Kinghorn don't go. Even though I would have Ritchie in.


I think in Ritchies favour is one he was our standout forward in the 6N and two, after Watson, he is the best 7 in the backrow group and also a very good 6.

Agree with BigD, Bradbury must be pushing as first choice 8 after his last outing, Strauss, I feel Townsend had no option in the 6N but to pick him, is unlikely to go to the RWC, Thomson remains unproven at International level so would surely need huge performances in the warm up matches to get ahead of others. So at 8 for me it is Bradbury and Wilson.

We are a bit stacked with very good 6s with Wilson, Barclay, Ritchie and Skinner the pick of the bunch. With Ritchie the next best 7, Skinner able to play second row and Wilson a good 8 option I think Barclay may be the one fighting for a spot but his leadership and experience will add weight to his selection chances.

Similarly I cant see us losing both Graham and Kinghorn as if both go, it means one of Seymour or Maitland does not which I can’t see, caveated by the injury situation when it comes time to fly to Japan

Going to be some talented players left at home with some huge decisions for Townsend to make. Think to do date injuries have always helped make his selections easier.

From an ER point of view, again without injuries having a say, I can’t see us losing all of Ritchie, Bradbury and Barclay to the RWC squad I am also not convinced Toolis will make it either despite Ritchie Grays current omission from the wider squad, and one of Kinghorn or Graham likely to be around as well.
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Re: Squad 19/20

Postby TheSmidge on Fri May 10, 2019 2:39 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:
BigD163 wrote:
liveinhope wrote:I realise it is heretic to say this on the Edinburgh site but there is a school of thought that suggests entirely possible that none of Bradbury,Ritchie and Kinghorn will make the final cut of 31. Equally all three could make it to Japan.


Given the way Bradbury played at 8 v England particularly his carrying and work from the base of the scrum it would be daft for him not to go.

There is every chance Ritchie and Kinghorn don't go. Even though I would have Ritchie in.


I think in Ritchies favour is one he was our standout forward in the 6N and two, after Watson, he is the best 7 in the backrow group and also a very good 6.

Agree with BigD, Bradbury must be pushing as first choice 8 after his last outing, Strauss, I feel Townsend had no option in the 6N but to pick him, is unlikely to go to the RWC, Thomson remains unproven at International level so would surely need huge performances in the warm up matches to get ahead of others. So at 8 for me it is Bradbury and Wilson.

We are a bit stacked with very good 6s with Wilson, Barclay, Ritchie and Skinner the pick of the bunch. With Ritchie the next best 7, Skinner able to play second row and Wilson a good 8 option I think Barclay may be the one fighting for a spot but his leadership and experience will add weight to his selection chances.

Similarly I cant see us losing both Graham and Kinghorn as if both go, it means one of Seymour or Maitland does not which I can’t see, caveated by the injury situation when it comes time to fly to Japan

Going to be some talented players left at home with some huge decisions for Townsend to make. Think to do date injuries have always helped make his selections easier.

From an ER point of view, again without injuries having a say, I can’t see us losing all of Ritchie, Bradbury and Barclay to the RWC squad I am also not convinced Toolis will make it either despite Ritchie Grays current omission from the wider squad, and one of Kinghorn or Graham likely to be around as well.



Whether all of Graham, Kinghorn, Maitland and Seymour go is largely dependent upon the make-up of the squad elsewhere. In the forwards, if we take 6 props, 3 hookers, 3 locks and 5 back rowers, including Skinner as a 4/6, that makes 17. That leaves space for 14 backs, broken down as 3 SHs, 2 FHs, 4 centres and 5 wing/full-backs. Which would most likely include all 4 of those guys (plus Hogg obviously).

However, if we take 4 specialist locks AND Skinner, that's most likely an 18/13 split, which will probably rule King Blairhorn out of the equation. The only alternative would be travelling with 5 props, but that is unlikely given none of the current crop can cover both sides.

I do not envy Toony and his coaches the final decisions if everyone is fit and showing form in the warm-up games. There are so many tight calls to make and that's even before we consider the impact on the pro teams during that period.
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Re: Squad 19/20

Postby The Feral Goat on Fri May 10, 2019 2:44 pm

There is also the Duncan Taylor factor who can play pretty much anywhere from 12-15 but has not played all season. His fitness and availability is likely to have a bearing on the selection as well.
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Re: Squad 19/20

Postby royc on Fri May 10, 2019 7:59 pm

JDCSR wrote:We do also have some great prospects in terms of stage 3 players.

Archie Erskine is a big blindside who will have been toughened up by a year in France as will Hamish Bain who is a unit of a lock.

Boyle and Darge are superb prospects at openside.

Cammy Hutchinson is an incisive runner in the centres who has also been in France.

We've already seen a bit of Hodgson and Atkinson in the second row.

I'd quite like to see these guys strengthening the side rather than journeymen.


These would be my picks too, plus Jack Blain and probably Rufus McLean and Roan Frostwick in the backs. They are all talented young players with good potential, exactly what we need to be developing for the future.
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Re: Squad 19/20

Postby BigD163 on Mon May 13, 2019 8:46 am

TheSmidge wrote:Whether all of Graham, Kinghorn, Maitland and Seymour go is largely dependent upon the make-up of the squad elsewhere. In the forwards, if we take 6 props, 3 hookers, 3 locks and 5 back rowers, including Skinner as a 4/6, that makes 17. That leaves space for 14 backs, broken down as 3 SHs, 2 FHs, 4 centres and 5 wing/full-backs. Which would most likely include all 4 of those guys (plus Hogg obviously).

However, if we take 4 specialist locks AND Skinner, that's most likely an 18/13 split, which will probably rule King Blairhorn out of the equation. The only alternative would be travelling with 5 props, but that is unlikely given none of the current crop can cover both sides.


Whilst taking 6 props cannot be discounted, worth noting that nearly, if not every side only took 5 to the last world cup. So one prop may end up being emergency cover for the other side even if weak there.
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Re: Squad 19/20

Postby TheSmidge on Mon May 13, 2019 9:27 am

BigD163 wrote:
TheSmidge wrote:Whether all of Graham, Kinghorn, Maitland and Seymour go is largely dependent upon the make-up of the squad elsewhere. In the forwards, if we take 6 props, 3 hookers, 3 locks and 5 back rowers, including Skinner as a 4/6, that makes 17. That leaves space for 14 backs, broken down as 3 SHs, 2 FHs, 4 centres and 5 wing/full-backs. Which would most likely include all 4 of those guys (plus Hogg obviously).

However, if we take 4 specialist locks AND Skinner, that's most likely an 18/13 split, which will probably rule King Blairhorn out of the equation. The only alternative would be travelling with 5 props, but that is unlikely given none of the current crop can cover both sides.


Whilst taking 6 props cannot be discounted, worth noting that nearly, if not every side only took 5 to the last world cup. So one prop may end up being emergency cover for the other side even if weak there.


It is one of the risks that has to be taken at RWC, another being going with only 4 back-3 specialists. If it is a possibility, then I would hope that a LH and a TH will be training to cover the other side. My money would be on Bhatti and Fagerson.
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Re: Squad 19/20

Postby JDCSR on Mon May 13, 2019 6:54 pm

TheSmidge wrote:
BigD163 wrote:
TheSmidge wrote:Whether all of Graham, Kinghorn, Maitland and Seymour go is largely dependent upon the make-up of the squad elsewhere. In the forwards, if we take 6 props, 3 hookers, 3 locks and 5 back rowers, including Skinner as a 4/6, that makes 17. That leaves space for 14 backs, broken down as 3 SHs, 2 FHs, 4 centres and 5 wing/full-backs. Which would most likely include all 4 of those guys (plus Hogg obviously).

However, if we take 4 specialist locks AND Skinner, that's most likely an 18/13 split, which will probably rule King Blairhorn out of the equation. The only alternative would be travelling with 5 props, but that is unlikely given none of the current crop can cover both sides.


Whilst taking 6 props cannot be discounted, worth noting that nearly, if not every side only took 5 to the last world cup. So one prop may end up being emergency cover for the other side even if weak there.


It is one of the risks that has to be taken at RWC, another being going with only 4 back-3 specialists. If it is a possibility, then I would hope that a LH and a TH will be training to cover the other side. My money would be on Bhatti and Fagerson.


I remember when Low was a reasonable TH and and Welsh a better than decent LH. Then they swapped and faded from international rugby.

Agree with you though. Reckon might be Bergs covering LH during the world cup as I'm sure he was touted as covering both sides when he signed.
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Re: Squad 19/20

Postby BigD163 on Tue May 14, 2019 8:51 am

JDCSR wrote:
TheSmidge wrote:
It is one of the risks that has to be taken at RWC, another being going with only 4 back-3 specialists. If it is a possibility, then I would hope that a LH and a TH will be training to cover the other side. My money would be on Bhatti and Fagerson.


I remember when Low was a reasonable TH and and Welsh a better than decent LH. Then they swapped and faded from international rugby.

Agree with you though. Reckon might be Bergs covering LH during the world cup as I'm sure he was touted as covering both sides when he signed.


From a quick look, Nel and Welsh were involved in every game as the TH duos. So I guess Reid or Dicko were on emergency TH watch in the last one.

No idea which of the props would cover best but I think I would be taking 3THs and 2 LHPs rather than leaving one of Berghan/Fagerson at home. So I think I would be asking Berghan to be the emergency cover but perhaps have a 3rd LH prop holidaying near by.

That being said Townsend and co need to do what is best for the team and if that is 6 props then they'll do it.
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Re: Squad 19/20

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Fri May 17, 2019 8:50 pm

We are getting a very good player in Bhatti. Cockers is going to turn him into an absolute monster.
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