Dragons v Edinburgh Sun 25th November

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Re: Dragons v Edinburgh Sun 25th November

Postby BruceLee on Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:03 pm

Tichtheid wrote:
BruceLee wrote:I have to agree with you on the Try,it looked 100% a good try by Dean.The TMO got that one wrong.Hopefully we never have to endure that Ref for a while; if ever. He was shockingly poor.It was a TonySpreadbury poor perfomance by us against an average Dragons team,but small margins can lose you a match and thats where the disallowed try came back to haunt us.



I'm sure the Drags fans had complaints too, but there were a few shockers from our point of view. There was a scrum when Sutherland had just come on and he melted his prop, the tighthead just buckled under the pressure and Sutherland was penalised.

I was doing a Chris Dean at my computer screen at that point.

i do a Chris Dean everytime i see Pyrgos line up a tackle or stand at the back of the Forwards wondering what to do next,or when Van der Merwe has to get his defensive position right prior to him attempting a tackle,which in most cases he misses!
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Re: Dragons v Edinburgh Sun 25th November

Postby liveinhope on Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:36 pm

Why are we surprised though? The moment it was noticed Berry was appointed ref for this match everyone on this (and Glasgow's) blog realised we were in for trouble!
Seriously though can anyone comment who has "primacy"-ref or TMO? Berry's continued attempts to duck out of decision was ludicrous and took up inordinate amounts of time.Presumably the point he made about the TMO having HD could be made by every referee as a cop-out so is pure nonsense. At the end of the day surely the referee is sole arbiter of fact and he just seemed to try to push the TMO in a particular way but make it look like it was not his (ref's) decision.
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Re: Dragons v Edinburgh Sun 25th November

Postby dolf_lundgren on Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:08 pm

I dont have an issue with the TMO making decisions, or at least contributing. It is just a fact that they do have a better screen and can control what they see better, if they are qualified and neutral why not?

The neutral part s where the Pro 14 let themselves down massively though, we have all seen dodgy decisions from Welsh officials in Wales. Not so much Irish in Ireland but it does happen.
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Re: Dragons v Edinburgh Sun 25th November

Postby The Chiel on Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:09 pm

Ref always has( should always have :roll: ) primacy.

I'm pretty sure there is a code between the TMO & ref if the TMO thinks the ref is getting it wrong but can't actually say so - "I'll see if I can find you anther angle", "I'll just run this angle for you again", and I have no objection to that - it's sensible. But it should always be the ref's final call. I've never heard a ef saying the big screen isn't good enough before.

As an aside, when did making an "onfield call" start to be used by refs? They've used it in rugby league for a while, but it seems to me only recently I've started hearing it in Union. Or have I not been paying attention again . . . :oops:

And on the subject of refs, it's Nigel O'wens on Friday night.
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Re: Dragons v Edinburgh Sun 25th November

Postby robdinsdale on Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:45 pm

liveinhope wrote:Why are we surprised though? The moment it was noticed Berry was appointed ref for this match everyone on this (and Glasgow's) blog realised we were in for trouble!
Seriously though can anyone comment who has "primacy"-ref or TMO? Berry's continued attempts to duck out of decision was ludicrous and took up inordinate amounts of time.Presumably the point he made about the TMO having HD could be made by every referee as a cop-out so is pure nonsense. At the end of the day surely the referee is sole arbiter of fact and he just seemed to try to push the TMO in a particular way but make it look like it was not his (ref's) decision.


I thought with Graham's try the TMO was inclined to give the benefit of the doubt but Berry's question wasn't doing him any favours with the camera angle he had, hence the hesitation.

One problem with Berry is that he is a 'good communicator' and doesn't make many decisions. This is good for the TV spectacle, so he'll probably do well with appointments.
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Re: Dragons v Edinburgh Sun 25th November

Postby joe soap on Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:45 pm

liveinhope wrote:Seriously though can anyone comment who has "primacy"-ref or TMO?


the ref always has primacy. But that includes devolving the decision but asking for and accepting a TMO recommendation. Which may be changing soon
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Re: Dragons v Edinburgh Sun 25th November

Postby joe soap on Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:48 pm

robdinsdale wrote:One problem with Berry is that he is a 'good communicator' and doesn't make many decisions. This is good for the TV spectacle, so he'll probably do well with appointments.


he was sent packing from the home of "spectacle" reffing, super rugby, because he was SteveWalsh. Pro14 were fobbed off with and accepted a failed cast off
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Re: Dragons v Edinburgh Sun 25th November

Postby joe soap on Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:55 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
joe soap wrote:young pack played exactly like their more experienced colleagues, huff and puff and slow ball. Actually better than some of the more experienced ones one of whom needs binned. Oh, and CHH is a keeper, only leader on the park for Edinburgh. Cockerill should make him captain now and build a pack around him who will perform every week.


CHH is still the fifth best second row we have when all fit though, I don't think you can build the team around him until he improves as a player. I think HH and Hodgson have improved every week which is all you can ask. Would be interested to see him play alongside Toolis and GG.


he might be 5th choice but whether is 5th best is different thing. Items of leadership and not accepting poor standards, he should be far higher up the pecking order.

It has been obvious that we needed to move to the next generation for leadership, its what Cockerill tried to do with Bradbury.
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Re: Dragons v Edinburgh Sun 25th November

Postby liveinhope on Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:08 pm

Interesting point about CHH being our 5th choice lock.Sure that was correct at the beginning of the season but these things are not written in tablets of stone and can -quite rightly-change very quickly (just look at how Graham has changed from "not big enough" and putting in 2/3 good performances and as a result being capped off the bench or Stafford Macdowall in Glasgow looking so promising after just one start and one bench appearance).So CHH is now probably well ahead of Carmichael (a lot bigger too?) and knocking hard on the door of Mackenzie in the rankings for No.3 .Quite possible to see him getting higher up if he gets a few more chances-perhaps see him bench in the Champions Cup for instance?)
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Re: Dragons v Edinburgh Sun 25th November

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:41 pm

Carmichael was really good last year though, I don't think CHH has been at his level or McKenzie's either.

I think Hodgson has been as good as CHH.
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Re: Dragons v Edinburgh Sun 25th November

Postby Tichtheid on Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:42 pm

They're all going to get another bite at the cherry on Friday against Munster as Cockers says he will not pick the internationals because of player welfare.

It's a ridiculous schedule, Munster, Zebre and us all played on Sunday and are playing again on Friday, we're the only one of the three having to travel to two away games
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Re: Dragons v Edinburgh Sun 25th November

Postby liveinhope on Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:04 pm

Frankly disgraceful made even worse by the late kick off on Sunday so-I believe-the players were bussing back and arriving home in the middle of the night (on Monday morning).Then travelling to Cork on Thursday whilst Munster at least get to stay at home.Pretty cruel scheduling but even worse knowing that the Scottish teams would suffer more than other countries (apart from Italy) with only two teams to chose from so would have fewer available to choose from and little chance to "split" squads for the two games.
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Re: Dragons v Edinburgh Sun 25th November

Postby gowrie on Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:25 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:Carmichael was really good last year though, I don't think CHH has been at his level or McKenzie's either.

I think Hodgson has been as good as CHH.


Agee, he's improved but I do think if we had Carmichael and McKenzie with CHH on the bench we would have won.
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Re: Dragons v Edinburgh Sun 25th November

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:49 am

gowrie wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:Carmichael was really good last year though, I don't think CHH has been at his level or McKenzie's either.

I think Hodgson has been as good as CHH.


Agee, he's improved but I do think if we had Carmichael and McKenzie with CHH on the bench we would have won.


Yeah the injuries are hurting us as much as the call ups.

I maybe thought we were closer to Glasgow than we are. They handle international periods better than us, just a stronger squad all round. It's not so much about the top 23 guys anymore and I think Cockers has learnt that.

Need young energy coming though at 9, centres and front row. This is invaluable experience for the squad and invaluable for Cockers in knowing who to keep. I really thought we'd keep Ford but he's looked old and slow lately.
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Re: Dragons v Edinburgh Sun 25th November

Postby doedin on Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:48 pm

Leinster put 59 points on the Dragons team that beat us last week! Puts our lacklustre performance into perspective.
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