Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby dolf_lundgren on Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:10 pm

This could get messy. We are as weak as we have been for a long time, they look massively strong and to top it off they are bringing their pet ref!

Losing bp would be close to a miracle.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:54 pm

Think a few of the problems with depth we have this year was last year in the challenge cup Cockers played full strength teams.

All our eggs in the CC basket is bold..
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby Weegie on Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:29 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:
disco wrote:On top of the Scotland boys getting their week's holiday Cockerill has chosen to rest Schoeman, Mata, Pyrgos and Hickey. I think Graham also as he didn't really play enough to fall into the Scotland rest protocols. For Edinburgh it should hopefully mean they go into those Newcastle games fully loaded - looking like at least 14 changes for next week. It does mean it's going to make it even tougher for the young lads out on Friday night though.


While I appreciate Mata is not captured by the Scotland rest protocols, more than anyone, I think he needs a bit of rest time, put in a huge amount of work for ER so far this season and then Fiji the last few weeks. Need him fresh to wreak havoc against Newcastle and Glasgow over the coming month :)


Mata came off against France and had an ice pack on his leg so there was a knock of some kind.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby doedin on Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:00 pm

Cockers has written this game off and giving the 1st and 2nd picks a week off to rest for Newcastle game. Fair enough but dont think i can watch another performance like last weeks.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby Weegie on Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:07 pm

doedin wrote:Cockers has written this game off and giving the 1st and 2nd picks a week off to rest for Newcastle game. Fair enough but dont think i can watch another performance like last weeks.


And to be fair, he has been open about that when in the past supporters just had to guess that is what was going on.

But as has been mentioned, it is a bit of a dangerous game as we could end up missing on qualification for next year as a result, and gain what?

I know this is rather defeatist, but the extra match derby against Glasgow so we have 3 matches against a Pro 14 powerhouse is a big handicap. Looking at the remaining fixtures it is quite hard to see where we will make up the ground.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby The Feral Goat on Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:44 pm

Munster away is always a tough fixture, our first XV would be competitive but would still struggle to win.

I think our injury situation should start to ease with Crosbie, Scott, carmichael reportedly expected back for Newcastle and then most of the others (barclay Mckenzie and Bennett I think) in the new year prior to the 6N, assuming we don't have any more serious injuries we should have a much stronger squad for the 6n period and perhaps look to pick up points then.

I can't see qualification for the CC being missed due to an away loss to munster it is the dragons and Zebre matches, to date, that will hurt us come season end.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby Tichtheid on Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:33 pm

We've just got to soldier on, we've still got games against both Ulster and Scarlets to come which are potential 8 to 10 point turnarounds against each of them.

Plus if it doesn't go to plan there is a play off for the last spot in the big cup, that's not the way I'd want us to do it, but it's an option

Scarlets are in Glasgow on Saturday, the Weedgies will hopefully do us a favour. Ulster are at home to Cardiff, that's not a gimme.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby liveinhope on Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:46 pm

That "last play" penalty goal by John Cooney for Ulster against us in the second week cause a six point turnaround (with Ulster) and may yet come back to haunt us.

Equally important as Tichtheid says that we keep an eye on other results (in both conferences).Glasgow are listing possibly the weakest line-up I've seen from them for a long time whilst Scarlets have listed some of their internationalists back so it would be a great result if Glasgow could win and do us a favour tomorrow.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby joe soap on Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:12 pm

The Chiel wrote:Good to see Hamilton rewarded with the captaincy, even in such a inexperienced side. The jury is still out on whether he's genuine international class at 6 or 8, but he's carried really willingly all season.


Agreed. Point to ponder however. I have mentioned before that I think Mata is over-used with 20+ carries per game typical. Its hard on him and it makes Edinburgh predictable. Have gotten away with it a lot because he has been freakish;y good in his carrying - but can he keep it up for a full season?
Anyway, Mata missing last week, up steps Hamilton a very willing carrier. 25 carries in fact. Isn't it about time that Cockerill discovered another tactic other than the no8 taking the ball up? Its more predictable than a Solly gameplan
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby dolf_lundgren on Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:47 pm

Thing is that Mata has a very clear remit, he doesnt have to worry about tackling too much or clearing rucks, just do what you are good at.

Hamilton and Schoeman have a huge work rate in both attack and defence. This is possibly magnified by the loss of our top front 5, so cant expect the youngsters to do too much of the heavy lifting.

Being a one trick pony is not a bad thing as long as the trick is good, and Mata carrying is a good trick. I think missing Scott and Bennet as well as Socino not firing has knocked the confidence to go wide, so bashing it up has been our best tactic. I would hope we would mix it up more when they are back.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby The Feral Goat on Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:48 pm

I think the other aspect of Mata's carrying is how far over the gain line he gets it is almost always at least a couple metres so the rest of pack are on the front foot and able to attack the ruck while the opposition is retreating to reset, provides a good platform for our attack to play off. Not all our ball carriers make the same impact and sometimes our pack is having to head backwards to get to a ruck just to secure slow ball.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby joe soap on Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:02 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:Thing is that Mata has a very clear remit, he doesnt have to worry about tackling too much or clearing rucks, just do what you are good at.

Hamilton and Schoeman have a huge work rate in both attack and defence. This is possibly magnified by the loss of our top front 5, so cant expect the youngsters to do too much of the heavy lifting.

Being a one trick pony is not a bad thing as long as the trick is good, and Mata carrying is a good trick. I think missing Scott and Bennet as well as Socino not firing has knocked the confidence to go wide, so bashing it up has been our best tactic. I would hope we would mix it up more when they are back.


shall I type it slowly this time? Not a criticism of Mata in any way.
Yes he has a remit, but Hamilton is not Mata. And Mata can't play every game. Nor is it saying not to bash it up as much. Its a criticism of a coaching team that does not change the point of attack and so challenge a defence. As I said Hamilton got the same load and while he is a willing carrier he isn't in the same league as Mata.
Doesn't have to get big metres every time, just variety, quick ball and keep the defence guessing. Its easy to defend when the opposition know the no8 will carry so much.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby dolf_lundgren on Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:22 pm

What were the stats from the Scarlets game? Hamilton and Schoeman did a huge amount of work alongside Mata.

I dont think it is our only tactic but it is part of it. When we have a thrown togerther pack then obviously the main carriers like Hamilton will do more work.
So in short I dont have an issue with the amount of carrying they do, when we have Gilcho, Toolis, Dell and Mcinally back they will share the workload.

p.s you can type as slowly as you like, doesnt make you right all the time, i didnt suggest you were having a go at Mata, I just pointed out that his remit is clear and carrying is what he brings to the team, to be honest if he isnt going to be our main ball carrier then he might as well not play! Cockers has been pretty clear on that and I think he is right It is why Ritchie is so valuable to the team as he gets through all the dirty work.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby Weegie on Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:16 pm

Well this is poor.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:16 pm

This is predicatably awful.
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