Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:52 pm

Solly never had a winning team to blood them into, that is where his plan fell down.


Don't think our current style of play is the easiest to bring young players into particularly forwards. While it is pretty basic it does require a lot of contact and physicality which for a 20ish year old is tough going (exceptions apply). Glasgow is more skills based playing out of or before contact so being able to batter over the gain line is less important and skills can be honed easier in training.

When our pack struggles and are backs without the few top quality ones we do have, they really struggle.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:07 pm

Off the top of my head, I've probably missed some - Sutherland, Cosgrove, Rambo conversion, Berghan (young for a prop), Toolis x2, Ritchie, Bradbury, Sam H-C, various flyhalfs, Dean, Hoyland, Kinghorn - all brought on by Solly at a young age

I could say Turner, too. but he never really got a sustained shot at it.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:10 pm

David Cherry playing for Edinburgh whilst Turner (deemed not good enough by Solly) is playing terrifically for Glasgow.

Just one example. How many others slip through the net?

The plan to bring young players into a good team was fundamentally flawed in we couldn't sign the players to make us a good team!

Cockers has his faults too with youth development. Think he could take a few more risks.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:14 pm

Tichtheid wrote:Off the top of my head, I've probably missed some - Sutherland, Cosgrove, Rambo conversion, Berghan (young for a prop), Toolis x2, Ritchie, Bradbury, Sam H-C, various flyhalfs, Dean, Hoyland, Kinghorn - all brought on by Solly at a young age

I could say Turner, too. but he never really got a sustained shot at it.


Cosgrove - left, AToolis - left, SHC - left, various flyhalfs - jamesmatthew & left.

Dean, Kinghorn, Bradbury and Ritchie were all standout age grade players destined for the top.

He didn't do a good job at all.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:17 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Tichtheid wrote:Off the top of my head, I've probably missed some - Sutherland, Cosgrove, Rambo conversion, Berghan (young for a prop), Toolis x2, Ritchie, Bradbury, Sam H-C, various flyhalfs, Dean, Hoyland, Kinghorn - all brought on by Solly at a young age

I could say Turner, too. but he never really got a sustained shot at it.


Cosgrove - left, AToolis - left, SHC - left, various flyhalfs - jamesmatthew & left.

Dean, Kinghorn, Bradbury and Ritchie were all standout age grade players destined for the top.

He didn't do a good job at all.



Your premise was that Solomons didn't blood young players, I'd say that he did blood young players, whether or not they turned out to be any good or left the club is surely a different question?
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby biffer on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:31 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:David Cherry playing for Edinburgh whilst Turner (deemed not good enough by Solly) is playing terrifically for Glasgow.

Just one example. How many others slip through the net?

The plan to bring young players into a good team was fundamentally flawed in we couldn't sign the players to make us a good team!

Cockers has his faults too with youth development. Think he could take a few more risks.


To be fair to Cockerill in less than a season and a half we've had Cherry, Fenton, Carmichael, Hunter-Hill, Crosbie, Miller, Baggott and Graham all involved in his time here. We're still waiting to see Shiel and there's a few there we'd like to see a bit more of, but 15 months isn't much time to judge your youth development on.
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:35 pm

Where I'd agree on Solly either doing or overseeing a bad job was with those fly halfs.

I was talking to someone in the pub when Harry Leonard first signed, he had coached Leonard at school and the opinion was that he was not a Cipriani, but he was a brilliant game-manager who took instruction well, I think he's with Yorkshire Carnegie now.

Tom Heathcote was being described by some Bath fans as the best thing to come out of their academy since Guscott, he is with Wuss now, and is struggling with concussion.

Piers Francis went to the Auckland Blues and played well enough to be called into the full England squad (I have a hunch he might have had a word with Augustine Pulu and warned him off Edinburgh)
Francis is now with Northampton, of course.

Good coaching would have made good Edinburgh players out of those three.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby dolf_lundgren on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:43 pm

Which of the ones who left have gone on to greater things?

Piers Francis is the one that got away, but I didnt hear many howls to keep him, he was hopeless when he was here.

Cosgrove got a chance here and was doing ok, he has gone elsewhere (from memory we wantd him to stay) and is doing ok.

SHC has gone on to do what SHC does, which is flatter to deceieve and he was schooled by Pyrgos on how to control a game when we played Scarlets.

Im not saying Solly did a great job but I just dont see the lost generation who we are missing out on.

Turner is a bit of an enigma, he went to Glasgow when Brown was injured, he was clearly behind Ford and Mcinally at the time. so it was a good fit all around. I dont think he would fit that well with out gameplan, he is too loose and still makes a lot of mistakes, when it goes well he is brilliant, when you need heavy lifting done he is not as good. Credit to him though for moving to make a career for himself, could easily sat back and taken home his wage.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:48 pm

I thought Heathcote was playing very well when he first went to Worcester, he was the difference between the two teams in a good few of the games I watched him in.

Perhaps Leonard was never really going to make it at top league level, perhaps with the right guidance he would have done.

I agree that Turner is a good fit at Glasgow, but when I saw Fenton play last season I thought we got a good deal
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:54 pm

double post - agh it wasn't
Last edited by The Feral Goat on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby dolf_lundgren on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:56 pm

Tichtheid wrote:I thought Heathcote was playing very well when he first went to Worcester, he was the difference between the two teams in a good few of the games I watched him in.

Perhaps Leonard was never really going to make it at top league level, perhaps with the right guidance he would have done.

I agree that Turner is a good fit at Glasgow, but when I saw Fenton play last season I thought we got a good deal


I suppose that is the bit we will never know. Heathcote is one, and Weir to an extent who played better before and after he was here. How good woudl Kennedy have been if he had stayed at Glasgow?

Did Fenton go back to Glasgow?
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:57 pm

Fenton is injured think he had surgery in the off season still at ER
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby dolf_lundgren on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:58 pm

Thanks, had forgotten about him to be honest.
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:05 pm

On the official website Fenton is pictured training in the new kit, so presumably he's working his way back to fitness
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Re: Munster v Edinburgh Fri 30th Nov

Postby The Chiel on Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:37 pm

Tichtheid wrote:
I was talking to someone in the pub when Harry Leonard first signed, he had coached Leonard at school and the opinion was that he was not a Cipriani, but he was a brilliant game-manager who took instruction well, I think he's with Yorkshire Carnegie now.


Leonard is now down another league at Rosslyn Park in English Nat 1. Not sure been he's playing much this season, but may have been injured. On the bench last Saturday.
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