1872 2.0; The rise of Big Dick

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Re: 1872 2.0; The rise of Big Dick

Postby New Gunner on Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:47 pm

“The rise of Big Dick”. Really? Maybe we should have a separate ‘Snigger Snigger’ U16s free tickets thread?

Anyway...

Will admit to never having been near a scrum in my life, so completely naive about these things. There’s been a lot of angst from the other end of the M8 about Edinburgh wheeling the scrum and getting away with it two weeks in a row. Isn’t it just an inevitable consequence of Schoeman having Rae on toast while Kebble and Nell were a little better matched? The Glasgow scrum gives at the tight head side, Schoeman pushed forward and the set piece wheels clockwise under pressure?
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Re: 1872 2.0; The rise of Big Dick

Postby dolf_lundgren on Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:15 pm

The Glasgow scrum has been poor in big games for the past couple of years, they have generally gone for props who are more mobile and hoped to get away with it in the scrum. So it is no surprise they they get pushed around quite often, although Kebble has stiffened it a bit, they have now lost Brown and are playing Swinson/Harley who are both lightweight with Fagerson at 8 who is very lightweight. The assumption that this means the opposition is cheating is just daft. Nel and Schoeman are very good scrummagers, why shouldn't they be allowed to toast their opposite number? Just as Hogg will do if given the outside.

Most of those complaining will, as you have admitted, have no idea what is going on, just have a skewed sense of injustice. What Edinburgh have done to Glasgow in the past 2 weeks is what teams in Europe have been doing to them for years, its not rocket science.
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Re: 1872 2.0; The rise of Big Dick

Postby Tichtheid on Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:59 pm

As a general rule the tighthead has to cope with the pressure from both packs coming through their back/shoulders, as a consequence gaining forward movement, any forward movement is as a result of beating your opponent hands down.
You can attack the opposition scrum from the loosehead a lot more easily.

At tighthead you take the weight of the hooker and their number one across your shoulders, you also have a lock and a flanker driving you from behind, and the locks are supported by the number eight.
On the loosehead side you have the same except you have your left shoulder free,

The tighthead has to be very strong across the chest - think of how you'd use a pec deck at the gym, that is kind of the action you use in that your left arm is around the hooker and your right arm is reaching around the out side of their loosehead. Ideally you have your back parallel to the ground in the set up and when the ball comes in you squeeze the life out of your opponent, drop your hips a little and extend your legs, driving your opponent back

The loosehead sets up a little like a flanker would, the weight on your right shoulder as it contacts your opponent, right arm around the hooker and left arm under the opponent's right and on to his shirt.
You have to be very strong in the lower back as when the ball comes in you drop the hips a little and drive up and in, destabilising the tighthead and forcing him backwards.

Props are often caught out by having their feet too far back, this is a more secure, defensive set up as you lock out your legs and are very difficult to shift. The downside is that you can slip and the scrum goes down, from memory Kebble was getting caught out this way yesterday (I haven't watched the game again yet). Taller props ofter have this problem against shorter opponents - Bergs suffered from it during his first couple of seasons with us.

The ideal scrum is one where all eight players' backs are at the same height and almost parallel to the ground, hips a little lower than the shoulders. Looking from above you have two pods consisting of the prop, the lock and the flanker and the number eight locks them in to a single unit, the hooker doing something similar in the front row.
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Re: 1872 2.0; The rise of Big Dick

Postby GaryIPA on Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:45 pm

Tichtheid wrote:As a general rule the tighthead has to cope with the pressure from both packs coming through their back/shoulders, as a consequence gaining forward movement, any forward movement is as a result of beating your opponent hands down.
You can attack the opposition scrum from the loosehead a lot more easily.

At tighthead you take the weight of the hooker and their number one across your shoulders, you also have a lock and a flanker driving you from behind, and the locks are supported by the number eight.
On the loosehead side you have the same except you have your left shoulder free,

The tighthead has to be very strong across the chest - think of how you'd use a pec deck at the gym, that is kind of the action you use in that your left arm is around the hooker and your right arm is reaching around the out side of their loosehead. Ideally you have your back parallel to the ground in the set up and when the ball comes in you squeeze the life out of your opponent, drop your hips a little and extend your legs, driving your opponent back

The loosehead sets up a little like a flanker would, the weight on your right shoulder as it contacts your opponent, right arm around the hooker and left arm under the opponent's right and on to his shirt.
You have to be very strong in the lower back as when the ball comes in you drop the hips a little and drive up and in, destabilising the tighthead and forcing him backwards.

Props are often caught out by having their feet too far back, this is a more secure, defensive set up as you lock out your legs and are very difficult to shift. The downside is that you can slip and the scrum goes down, from memory Kebble was getting caught out this way yesterday (I haven't watched the game again yet). Taller props ofter have this problem against shorter opponents - Bergs suffered from it during his first couple of seasons with us.

The ideal scrum is one where all eight players' backs are at the same height and almost parallel to the ground, hips a little lower than the shoulders. Looking from above you have two pods consisting of the prop, the lock and the flanker and the number eight locks them in to a single unit, the hooker doing something similar in the front row.



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Re: 1872 2.0; The rise of Big Dick

Postby Wottie on Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:31 pm

borderflanker wrote:Did anyone else see the stamp by Wilson on Gilco in the collapsed maul just before Horne scored ?


He clearly kicks out on the ground catching Gilco on the head with his studs. Appalling illegal cheap shot at an international teammate. Tells you all you need to know about the man. He is lucky there is a player runs across the incident on the tv footage (although TMO and citing commissioner) will have other feeds and angles. Edinburgh won’t make an issue of it either obviously. Gilco clearly took a sore one to the head / face and needed treatment for it. Thought Wilson and Swinson let themselves down with their conduct throughout the game.
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Re: 1872 2.0; The rise of Big Dick

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:39 pm

Cheers TH good insight.

Like Cockerill I am getting a bit fed up of hearing that we only appear to have won because Glasgow were so poor. We executed a game plan very well and did not let them play two weeks in a row.

I am sure other teams saw how saracens stopped them playing as well but it is one thing to identify it another to have the personel availble to implement it. I think we have one of the best packs around with a really good balance of power and mobility.

I would really like to see our backs make more of the platform and hopefully matt Scott returning soon will give us that cutting edge in midfield that may help us push on.

Massive run of games coming up, we have a very strong first XV but need a few injuries to clear and the squad players to step up and keep the pressure on those above and around us in the conference
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Re: 1872 2.0; The rise of Big Dick

Postby BigD163 on Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:11 am

Another impressive performance. We seem to have Glasgow worked out and although everyone knows that game plan wont work as sweetly against everyone it does against Glasgow.

There is little doubt IMO that GG is the best second row available to Scotland now.
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Re: 1872 2.0; The rise of Big Dick

Postby robdinsdale on Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:36 am

BigD163 wrote:
There is little doubt IMO that GG is the best second row available to Scotland now.


I thought GG and Toolis both easily outplayed their Glasgow counterparts over the two games. Jonny Gray shouldn't be guaranteed a starting place for Scotland based on current form.
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Re: 1872 2.0; The rise of Big Dick

Postby doedin on Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:15 pm

Have to agree - I thought that GC was immense and provided the go forward and leadership we needed. He is now the player that we all knew he could be prior to his injury problems.

For me I would go with GC and Skinner in the 2nd row for 6Ns. Both do the donkey work, GC is excellent line out operator and Skinner is an aggressive and mobile carrier. Gray on bench for me.
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Re: 1872 2.0; The rise of Big Dick

Postby germain on Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:58 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:
Like Cockerill I am getting a bit fed up of hearing that we only appear to have won because Glasgow were so poor. We executed a game plan very well and did not let them play two weeks in a row.


Cockerill can't really complain too much about it.

He loves to play mind games before the game. And say things like "we're underdogs", "we have so much respect for them", "how could we compete when you see their squad", or "how can we compete against the leader of the conference A", etc...
so, after hearing all this, it's only natural for commentators to say that Glasgow lost beacause they failed to deliver. They just take Cockerill's own words seriously.

Everybody knows (except Cockerill ?) for years that your pack is better than Glasgow's, and so that you have often an advantage in that kind of very tensed and tight games. And I don't think many people said you won only because Glasgow were poor.
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Re: 1872 2.0; The rise of Big Dick

Postby Wottie on Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:02 pm

germain wrote:Cockerill can't really complain too much about it.

He loves to play mind games before the game. And say things like "we're underdogs", "we have so much respect for them", "how could we compete when you see their squad", or "how can we compete against the leader of the conference A", etc...
so, after hearing all this, it's only natural for commentators to say that Glasgow lost beacause they failed to deliver. They just take Cockerill's own words seriously


Sorry but that’s utter b*llocks!
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Re: 1872 2.0; The rise of Big Dick

Postby New Gunner on Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:07 pm

germain wrote:
The Feral Goat wrote:
Like Cockerill I am getting a bit fed up of hearing that we only appear to have won because Glasgow were so poor. We executed a game plan very well and did not let them play two weeks in a row.


Cockerill can't really complain too much about it.

He loves to play mind games before the game. And say things like "we're underdogs", "we have so much respect for them", "how could we compete when you see their squad", or "how can we compete against the leader of the conference A", etc...
so, after hearing all this, it's only natural for commentators to say that Glasgow lost beacause they failed to deliver. They just take Cockerill's own words seriously.

Everybody knows (except Cockerill ?) for years that your pack is better than Glasgow's, and so that you have often an advantage in that kind of very tensed and tight games. And I don't think many people said you won only because Glasgow were poor.


‘Your’ pack? Didn’t you used to profess to be an Edinburgh (AND Glasgow) fan? Maybe you only like show pony snowflake teams? :lol:
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Re: 1872 2.0; The rise of Big Dick

Postby germain on Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:10 pm

New Gunner wrote:
‘Your’ pack? Didn’t you used to profess to be an Edinburgh (AND Glasgow) fan? Maybe you only like show pony snowflake teams? :lol:


I don't think I ever hid that I came from the glasgow forum ant that I have a bias toward Glasgow. But I'm interested too in Edinburgh rugby.

Wottie wrote:
germain wrote:Cockerill can't really complain too much about it.

He loves to play mind games before the game. And say things like "we're underdogs", "we have so much respect for them", "how could we compete when you see their squad", or "how can we compete against the leader of the conference A", etc...
so, after hearing all this, it's only natural for commentators to say that Glasgow lost beacause they failed to deliver. They just take Cockerill's own words seriously


Sorry but that’s utter b*llocks!


It's of course your right to disagree. But there's a better manner to do it.
Cockerill indeed said those things. He's an astute communicator, and a funny one most of the time, but the victimization thing when talking about Glasgow is irritating (me at least).
Edinburgh is given credit for what the team is achieving. Edinburgh's pack is one of the moste respected in the league. If he wants Edinburgh to be praised for their flashy back moves, then he should just reflect on why he decided to keep Hodge...
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Re: 1872 2.0; The rise of Big Dick

Postby GaryIPA on Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:36 pm

F E C

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Re: 1872 2.0; The rise of Big Dick

Postby dolf_lundgren on Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:04 pm

Glasgow will be realising how lucky they were to get as close to us as they did! If we had turned it on properly it could have got messy, we kept our powder dry.
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