v Cardiff Sat. 23rd Feb 7.35pm

RaboDirect Pro12 & Heineken Match Discussion, Referee Retribution, and Player Powwow

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Re: v Cardiff Sat. 23rd Feb 7.35pm

Postby BruceLee on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:18 am

Ayton1keith wrote:Thought the players looked tired and jaded last night, disjointed in defence and a real lack of desire in attack. yes we were 14 zip up but both tries came from Edinburgh mistakes at the onset and then to turn over possession from two basic errors and give away tries to let Cardiff back into the game is unforgivable.
if we didn't already know it, HP is critical to our game plan and his box kicking is always on the money, last night 3/4 yards to far allowing them to come straight back at us. Our strength in depth is nowhere near good enough, however, we are less than two years into Cockers revolution and probably still punching above our weight, as the QF of Europe will testify. Would a first XV have won last night? yes and probably with a bonus point too. However, we are still going in the right direction.
As for next week, will be interesting if Connor O Shea, will target Benetton getting a play off place at the expense of the national team being mauled by England the following week. Think my plan of action will be to get fuelled up on Peroni and Processo before heading to the Stadio di Mongio next Saturday, as it might be a long afternoon in the Italian sunshine.

Unless we win next week in Italy,i still reckon at the minute its unlikely that we will finish in the top 8, bearing in mind we might be missing Fife,Duhan and Big Bill through injury,and like you say does O Shea throw all the top Benneton players in against us.My concern leading up to the Quarter final is if we lose all our matches up to that game,assuming there are rest protocols for our returning Six Nations heroes, we could have a squad low on morale and not in the best form to even stand a chance against one of Europes big guns.Yes we have been good on occasions this season,but if we do not finish in the top 8 and Qualify for the Big cup, to me its all been for nothing and feels like another Edinburgh false dawn,in which i like so many others have seen too many,unfortunately! Ps unless we win the Heineken cup that would change my view on improvement significantly lol at that scenario though.
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Re: v Cardiff Sat. 23rd Feb 7.35pm

Postby liveinhope on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:46 am

Only watched this morning "as live"-couldn't face after depression of Paris-and now feeling worse!
Yes,we are in the extraordinary position where we could win the Heineken Cup yet not qualify for next years version (or do the winners get automatic spot-I can't remember?)
As p[osted above next week's game is an absolute must (a real "8 pointer") and looking at Benetton's performance yesterday and our three new injuries the omens are not good.Presumably we will have Pyrgos and Dean back and (hopefully) Townsend may give us Darcy Graham and,less likely ,Toolis so they can get some more gametime even if they could both start against Wales.
Turning back to ladst night whilst I accept that Fowles did some good things and has some pace the refusal to switch from the quite painful and badly executed boxkicking was the root cause of the defeat (and here Cockerill must take a lot of the blame as presumably Fowles was playing to orders?) To give hard won ball back to Cardiff's 'big wingers was just nonsensical and the cause of at least one of their tries. Once we were 14-0 up we hardly saw the ball for twenty minutes but when we did we seemed to have no interest in even passing it to VDW let alone the centres.

Anyway with the schedule for the last 5 matches going to be a big task even to get an (away) play-off for the 7th Heineken spot.
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Re: v Cardiff Sat. 23rd Feb 7.35pm

Postby Tichtheid on Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:48 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Tichtheid wrote:Yet another meek second half surrender from a dominant position.

You could see it unfolding in horrible slow motion,

My wife knows someone professionally whose moto is "Change the people or change the people", some of these guys aren't up to it, they haven't changed.


Interesting, who would you change TH?



I was angry last night. I don't like slagging players off, even if they are never likely to read it, so I'll just say that the young guys get a pass as they are still up and coming, but the more experienced guys should be able to close out a game from 17-0 up with half an hour to go.
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Re: v Cardiff Sat. 23rd Feb 7.35pm

Postby BruceLee on Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:59 pm

Tichtheid wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Tichtheid wrote:Yet another meek second half surrender from a dominant position.

You could see it unfolding in horrible slow motion,

My wife knows someone professionally whose moto is "Change the people or change the people", some of these guys aren't up to it, they haven't changed.


Interesting, who would you change TH?



I was angry last night. I don't like slagging players off, even if they are never likely to read it, so I'll just say that the young guys get a pass as they are still up and coming, but the more experienced guys should be able to close out a game from 17-0 up with half an hour to go.

Spot on Tichtheid, thats why we will never win heehaw until the problem with closing out games is addressed; most teams in our league in a similiar posistion last night would have won that match.Tbh shame on the tactics employed if the kicker is substandard and also the so called old heads for not leading by example.I knew if we kicked loosely we would be punished, so in that respect the coaching team and Fowles should shoulder most of the blame.
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Re: v Cardiff Sat. 23rd Feb 7.35pm

Postby liveinhope on Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:31 pm

Still find it incredible how we can lose at home when 17-0 up after 55mins at home!
Anyway a couple of issues here:
1.No one has commented on the scrummaging at all.Must be the first time in a very long time an Edinburgh scrum never exerted any dominance or won a penalty at the scrum (even with our all international three off the bench).
Any idea what was up here? Was it just great scrummaging from a very inexperienced Cardiff unit or was the referee more aware of illegalities and our props feeling they couldn't get away with some of their usual tricks? Definitely one for Tichtheid!
2.In the second half just before VDW kicked the penalty to put us 17 up we had a "free play" .After acouple of breenges Folwes swung it right and Socino just had to put it through the hands but opted for an appalingly executed chip into the ingoal area giving us no chance.It was clueless and badly executed.A try there instead of a penalty would probably have seen us out of sight and the rest of the game could have been totally different.
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Re: v Cardiff Sat. 23rd Feb 7.35pm

Postby macdone on Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:30 pm

Part of the problem is giving zero gametime to our back up players like Fowles, Hickey and McCallum.

Ford and Socino haven't been able to use their experience to any positive effect and both made big mistakes.

Our wide defence has been a problem all season and a lot of it has just been missed individual tackles. Fife is a better wing than fullback, and Hoyland needs to sort that part of his game as he gets fitness back.
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Re: v Cardiff Sat. 23rd Feb 7.35pm

Postby BruceLee on Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:47 am

liveinhope wrote:Still find it incredible how we can lose at home when 17-0 up after 55mins at home!
Anyway a couple of issues here:
1.No one has commented on the scrummaging at all.Must be the first time in a very long time an Edinburgh scrum never exerted any dominance or won a penalty at the scrum (even with our all international three off the bench).
Any idea what was up here? Was it just great scrummaging from a very inexperienced Cardiff unit or was the referee more aware of illegalities and our props feeling they couldn't get away with some of their usual tricks? Definitely one for Tichtheid!
2.In the second half just before VDW kicked the penalty to put us 17 up we had a "free play" .After acouple of breenges Folwes swung it right and Socino just had to put it through the hands but opted for an appalingly executed chip into the ingoal area giving us no chance.It was clueless and badly executed.A try there instead of a penalty would probably have seen us out of sight and the rest of the game could have been totally different.

Yeh did notice that early doors how jaded and ineffective we were at scrum time, expected more and gave them the benefit of the doubt,but the scrum dominance did not materialise against an average set of Cardiff forwards.TBH was too concerned on our total ineffective style of play and when the unforgivable was going to happen, and it did.
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Re: v Cardiff Sat. 23rd Feb 7.35pm

Postby joe soap on Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:33 pm

liveinhope wrote:1.No one has commented on the scrummaging at all.Must be the first time in a very long time an Edinburgh scrum never exerted any dominance or won a penalty at the scrum (even with our all international three off the bench).
Any idea what was up here? Was it just great scrummaging from a very inexperienced Cardiff unit or was the referee more aware of illegalities and our props feeling they couldn't get away with some of their usual tricks?


good points. Watching it on TV, the ref spoke to Shoeman a couple of times, think about his scrummaging angles - he isn't always as obvious as some but he does as nearly all destructive Loose Heads do, tend to swing his hips out and drive in and up. Stop that and all Loose Heads are easier to scrum against.
On the other side, Ceccarelli is ok 3rd or 4th choice, but he isn't top drawer or close.

Ford is done, a real step down from Cherry. Fenton was fit he'd disappear completely I guess
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Re: v Cardiff Sat. 23rd Feb 7.35pm

Postby doedin on Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:48 pm

Fowles was awful on Saturday! The kick straight out having received the pass from outside his 22m was unforgivable from a pro player. It led directly to conceding a try. He is an elusive runner but as a 9 you need to be able to manage a game and to perform the basics right neither of which he did. He is a bit of a headless chicken and guaranteed to make at least one or two howlers a game that usually result in conceding a try. His box kicking was poor throughout often too long to allow for a competition which against a Cardiff back 3 with two fast wingers was suicidal. Socino once against failed to impress and is another who promises a lot but delivers little. Shame we didnt see Shiel until it was too late to make a difference. Having watched the Weegies play them last week it was obvious where their threat was going to come from but the team obviously forgot to watch the game!

There is a real weakness in our depth of squad - we desperately need another SH, 10 and a 15 and for Hoyland, Scott and Bennet to get fit pdq! Fowles, Kennedy, Socino, Fife, Brown, Hickey all look surplus to requirements now!

Thought Cherry was outstanding.
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Re: v Cardiff Sat. 23rd Feb 7.35pm

Postby The Feral Goat on Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:44 pm

doedin wrote:Thought Cherry was outstanding.


Agree, been a great addition to the squad.

Clearly in his week with the Scotland squad he showed Russell how to pop the ball up while being tackled on his back. Some of our backs could also take note that when he stepped to go on the outside of the defender he swapped the ball to his outside hand to allow a fend…textbook stuff

VDM reporting to have gone off with a cut to the leg so hopefully not a serious injury and available next week.
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Re: v Cardiff Sat. 23rd Feb 7.35pm

Postby sammy on Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:33 pm

macdone wrote:Part of the problem is giving zero gametime to our back up players like Fowles, Hickey and McCallum.

Ford and Socino haven't been able to use their experience to any positive effect and both made big mistakes.

Our wide defence has been a problem all season and a lot of it has just been missed individual tackles. Fife is a better wing than fullback, and Hoyland needs to sort that part of his game as he gets fitness back.


Agree with this, hopefully it will be something that will change next season.

Duncan Weir took nearly a season to find form, but is clearly a good player. You can't put a team full of players that have spent most of their time on their backside, or playing at amateur rugby, and expect perform the really well individually or as a team. Not suggesting a tombola, but Rennie seems to manage a squad a lot better, with players being given more of a chance to show what they can do, and presumably more invested in the the club as a result.

While I wasn't that hopeful of the win at the start of the game it was really hard to see it slip away after such a big lead. I felt rather sad for some of the players as much blame them for it though.
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