Benetton 2nd March

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Re: Benetton 2nd March

Postby Crichton Gunner on Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:01 pm

The disappointing thing is that in a lot of our losses we have been leading but have been unable to hold that position. It's been a bit of a frustrating season, lots of good things but too many not so good, and we now look destined for the Challenge cup again next season.

But taking a step back and trying to look at the bigger picture, I think we over-achieved last season, and some of our wins were of the slightly fortunate variety. We didn't lose many players to the Scotland squad either, so weren't much weakened during the international windows. This season has been different; we've lost more players during the internationals, and maybe lady luck hasn't been so kind to us. One positive from this should be that it re-sets expectations on how easy it is to go from being perennial bottom-feeders to regular play-off participants. We are still in the early stages of this process, and hopefully the setbacks of this season will make all those concerned, players and coaches, even more determined to put in the hard work required to succeed. It was never going to be easy.
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Re: Benetton 2nd March

Postby BruceLee on Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:44 pm

Crichton Gunner wrote:The disappointing thing is that in a lot of our losses we have been leading but have been unable to hold that position. It's been a bit of a frustrating season, lots of good things but too many not so good, and we now look destined for the Challenge cup again next season.

But taking a step back and trying to look at the bigger picture, I think we over-achieved last season, and some of our wins were of the slightly fortunate variety. We didn't lose many players to the Scotland squad either, so weren't much weakened during the international windows. This season has been different; we've lost more players during the internationals, and maybe lady luck hasn't been so kind to us. One positive from this should be that it re-sets expectations on how easy it is to go from being perennial bottom-feeders to regular play-off participants. We are still in the early stages of this process, and hopefully the setbacks of this season will make all those concerned, players and coaches, even more determined to put in the hard work required to succeed. It was never going to be easy.

I think tbh we have never progressed to an acceptable level in the 18 years i have followed Edinburgh,barring 3 seasons where we achieved good league results, but they come along as often as a blue moon. something really has to change; finishing near the bottom every season and ending up in the Diddy cup will not attract a bigger following, simple as.In reality i am disgusted how slow the progress has been in all my years as an Edinburgh fan
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Re: Benetton 2nd March

Postby disco on Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:13 am

Tough going for Edinburgh in the international windows this year. The starting XVs they've put out across the whole season have averaged 818 previous appearances for the club (with a high of 1,032 and a low of 618).

When they've started with a XV above the average:
- won 11
- lost 3

When they've started with a XV below the average (7 of those being games when Scotland players have been unavailable):
- won 2
- lost 7

By way of comparison Glasgow's average for their starting XVs is 1,045 (high of 1,328 and low of 760).

Starting XV above the average:
- won 9
- lost 5

Starting XV below the average (7 when Scotland players unavailable):
- won 7
- lost 2

Those numbers represent 2 things to me - experience and cohesion. How well a side comes together; how few changes there are in the squad from season to season is a huge topic across team sports at the moment (well worth googling Ben Darwin and cohesion as he's one of the main rugby-related voices on this).

Just experience is not necessarily enough. Glasgow had many of the same veteran players involved in 2016/17 when they were nearly wiped out in the Test windows, winning just once, leading to the only occasion the club has missed the league playoffs since 2010/11. This season there's a settled squad, with only a handful of changes from Dave Rennie's first campaign.

There's no real shortcut on this. The foundations for Richard Cockerill were not great - so he had to make changes. Now if he can hold the squad together and primarily bring through young players (who are training in the club's style and culture as well as with their personnel) and maybe add a couple each season in positions where there isn't enough depth the experience and cohesion factors will leap forward.
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Re: Benetton 2nd March

Postby dolf_lundgren on Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:43 am

Interesting stuff. I think it is a little chicken and egg, we can't rotate until we have a stronger quad but our younger players won't get better unless they play more.

I am reticent to criticise Cockers but if he has a weakness he currently doesn't show much faith in his backup players. Even when we had the game won a few weeks ago he didn't let the replacements on until late in the game.

Having said that I don't think he is scared to play young players if he thinks they are good enough, the likes of a graham have had a lot of time and he is allowed Ritchie, Bradbury and Dean to. Play leaderships roles.

Sadly another "building season" by the looks of things. I'd be tempted to concentrate on the euro cup and try to tie minuites to th likes of Blain, Shiel and CHH in the league.
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Re: Benetton 2nd March

Postby royc on Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:09 pm

liveinhope wrote: I was pretty impressed by Blain who hardly put a foot wrong all day (he's a big guy,not quite VDM size but for just 19 big,fast and physical.)


He does look promising. He is the same height as Duhan, 6'3"/1.90, but two stones lighter, 14 st 4/91 kg against the big man's 16 st 9/105 kg. Still a big fast lad!
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Re: Benetton 2nd March

Postby JDCSR on Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:38 pm

royc wrote:
liveinhope wrote: I was pretty impressed by Blain who hardly put a foot wrong all day (he's a big guy,not quite VDM size but for just 19 big,fast and physical.)


He does look promising. He is the same height as Duhan, 6'3"/1.90, but two stones lighter, 14 st 4/91 kg against the big man's 16 st 9/105 kg. Still a big fast lad!


Think he's barely 19 as well so plenty of time to bulk up towards or over 100kg.
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Re: Benetton 2nd March

Postby Tichtheid on Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:03 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:Interesting stuff. I think it is a little chicken and egg, we can't rotate until we have a stronger quad but our younger players won't get better unless they play more.

.



The alternative is that we buy players in, there was a piece in the Offside Line last week quoting RC as looking for a couple of more Fijians, not Bill Mata-alikes, more Matawalu or Radradra

I don’t suppose it’s doable but I really like the look of the Highlanders centres Rob Thompson and Matt Faddes, they are both around the 27/28 mark and aren’t going to make the ABs but they are brilliant in Super Rugby
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Re: Benetton 2nd March

Postby Pitfitter446 on Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:29 pm

The wife was impressed by Blain too, stepped in to a big game and put in a good shift, did confuse her with the red scrum cap though, not the usual man under it.
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Re: Benetton 2nd March

Postby robdinsdale on Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:23 am

Tichtheid wrote:
dolf_lundgren wrote:Interesting stuff. I think it is a little chicken and egg, we can't rotate until we have a stronger quad but our younger players won't get better unless they play more.

.



The alternative is that we buy players in, there was a piece in the Offside Line last week quoting RC as looking for a couple of more Fijians, not Bill Mata-alikes, more Matawalu or Radradra

I don’t suppose it’s doable but I really like the look of the Highlanders centres Rob Thompson and Matt Faddes, they are both around the 27/28 mark and aren’t going to make the ABs but they are brilliant in Super Rugby


I reckon Fijians are likely as they definitely bring something we don't develop in Scotland and we seem to have the off-field structure/community for them.

I think one of the good aspects of Mata resigning is that there is probably good chat going around the islands about Edinburgh as a place to come play, so we may have an advantage picking up the right talent.
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