Whither now?

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Re: Whither now?

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun May 12, 2019 6:34 pm

BruceLee wrote:Sorry, should have added our below strength guys should be capable enough to get us out the group, as we all know a lot of teams pick weaker teams in the group stages.Then you have to show a bit interest if you get beyond the Quarter finals, but you might also get a group of death, it is possible, so in that respect nothing is a shoe in.


I just don't fancy our current depth guys Vs other teams depth guys. I hope we do pick our back ups to start because they need the experience but would be surprised if we then won the comp/escape the groups.
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Re: Whither now?

Postby TheSmidge on Mon May 13, 2019 10:02 am

I've had a quick go at working out the likely competitors and seedings for the Challenge Cup 2019/20. This is based on current league placings and assuming that Ospreys beat Scarlets in the play-off. There is a draw to determine the seedings of the 2nd and 4th ranked teams, but we're ranked 3rd for the Pro14 teams, so it won't impact our seeding.

1st Seeds
Wasps
Montpelier
Cardiff Blues
2 of Bristol/Stade Francais/Scarlets

2nd Seeds
1 of Bristol/Stade Francais/Scarlets
Worcester
Bordeaux
Edinburgh
1 of Leicester/Toulon/Dragons

3rd Seeds
2 of Leicester/Toulon/Dragons
London Irish
Pau
Zebre

4th Seeds
Agen
Grenoble
Brive
Calvisano
Ensei-STM

On that basis, it is not out of the question that we could have a reunion with Montpelier and Toulon, presumably then with one of the Continental Shield qualifiers.

An ideal draw would probably be something like Bristol, Pau and Ensei-STM :D

The odd thing is if we draw "bigger" teams, then it is more likely that we will play a development XV in the group stages. Either way, I want us to concentrate on the league and anyone who is in the first choice XV should only play (a) if we're desperate due to injuries, or (b) there is plenty of other rest weeks available for them.
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Re: Whither now?

Postby royc on Mon May 13, 2019 11:21 am

Rico wrote:
If this season has taught us anything it's that we don't have sufficient strength and depth (maybe with the exception of the back row) and can't, therefore, compete effectively on multiple fronts.

We simply can't afford to have our best players knackered for key Pro14 games because they've played largely pointless games in Romania or Russia or wherever. And the Pro14 should *always* be our priority.

If our second XV can get us out of the Challenge Cup group stage, by all means put out full strength teams thereafter. Otherwise it should be used for developmental reasons, or for giving players game time to players returning from injury.


I think this is the right call. We do not currently have enough strength in depth to mount an effective challenge in both league and cup. As this season showed, trying to do both rather knackered our 1st XV and fielding weakened sides led to league defeats.

Edinburgh's sole goal for the season should be making the league playoffs and thus qualifying for the Champions Cup. Doing well in the diddy cup counts for little really, playing the bottom teams from the Premiership and Top 14, let alone weak Russian or Romanian sides.

That does not necessarily mean we should field a 2nd XV in the pool stages of the Cup, rather we should rotate the squad sensibly to rest some of the 1st XV and develop some of the more promising back-up players.

For instance, give McCallum a start but with Ceccarelli, Berghan or Nel on the bench as cover, or in another game, start Cherry but with Willemse or McInally riding shotgun - a little rotation each game so that 3 or 4 promising back-up players get a shot at making their mark. Easy enough to do with the forwards, there are a lot of promising young players in the pack. More problematic in the back division, where IMO we are short of quality 1st XV and back-up players alike and/or the training in skills and plays to make them a cohesive unit, but that is going to be a continuing problem this season whatever we compete in.
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Re: Whither now?

Postby Crichton Gunner on Mon May 13, 2019 6:20 pm

I'd agree that playing in the Champions Cup this season stretched our resources a bit, but a much more significant issue was the number of players we lost to the national squad during the season. This was up significantly on the previous season, and we struggled to cope with it. Our "disaster" games, away to Zebre, Dragons and Kings, all came during international periods, and weren't related to the Champions Cup.
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Re: Whither now?

Postby germain on Fri May 24, 2019 10:45 pm

BruceLee wrote:Sorry, should have added our below strength guys should be capable enough to get us out the group, as we all know a lot of teams pick weaker teams in the group stages.Then you have to show a bit interest if you get beyond the Quarter finals, but you might also get a group of death, it is possible, so in that respect nothing is a shoe in.


Yes, but even if you qualify for the quarter final, you can have very solid english or french teams who will be really targetting the title too (Like Clermont this year and La Rochelle/le stade français/Toulon/Bordeaux next year, and Sale, Wasps, Bristol). All won't qualify, aim at the title and be at their best, but one or two is enough... So yeah, really not a shoe in.
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