Whither now?

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Re: Whither now?

Postby joe soap on Sat May 04, 2019 4:39 pm

malkster1 wrote:A lot of end of season gripes going on but tbt we simply ran out of steam. This was caused in no little part by lack of rotation and the sheer workload imposed on the pack by the tactics. They worked to a certain extent but eventually we were found wanting. We were also capable of occasionally reverting back to being as bad as we were under Alan Solomon's and those moments causing us to lose against weaker teams often from strong positions is what cost us our play off place not just winning 2 from 4 Vs Scarlets, Leinster, Glasgow and Ulster.
People are correct we need to improve next season and become less one dimensional. We have suffered some bad luck with injuries and signing players like Hickey and Socino who have been inexplicably poor but if we do not modify how we play then questions deserve to be answered.
However we have to be a little realistic that if we were to get rid of someone like Cockerill who is building a club and told us fixing the team would be a long term project after 3 years then who would you get. Not many top coaches would be interested and we would effectively have to start again.
Finally if the while point of your rant is Glasgow got Cockerill sacked and he had left a month before you look kind of silly :)


Your first 2 sentences are spot on. And issues of Cockerill's making.

The rest is an alternative narrative to usual. And given Focus will had a decade at Leicester, equally viable. Good coach once, probably?. Good coach now - results not reputation will decide.

I got the date or his sacking wrong. Big deal, it was his team that got humped, as they were in the first leg in Glasgow. And his legacy is still to work it's way out.

Definitely last post on this for now. The happy clappy tendency can keep the excuses coming
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Re: Whither now?

Postby dolf_lundgren on Sat May 04, 2019 5:59 pm

joe soap wrote:
malkster1 wrote:A lot of end of season gripes going on but tbt we simply ran out of steam. This was caused in no little part by lack of rotation and the sheer workload imposed on the pack by the tactics. They worked to a certain extent but eventually we were found wanting. We were also capable of occasionally reverting back to being as bad as we were under Alan Solomon's and those moments causing us to lose against weaker teams often from strong positions is what cost us our play off place not just winning 2 from 4 Vs Scarlets, Leinster, Glasgow and Ulster.
People are correct we need to improve next season and become less one dimensional. We have suffered some bad luck with injuries and signing players like Hickey and Socino who have been inexplicably poor but if we do not modify how we play then questions deserve to be answered.
However we have to be a little realistic that if we were to get rid of someone like Cockerill who is building a club and told us fixing the team would be a long term project after 3 years then who would you get. Not many top coaches would be interested and we would effectively have to start again.
Finally if the while point of your rant is Glasgow got Cockerill sacked and he had left a month before you look kind of silly :)


Your first 2 sentences are spot on. And issues of Cockerill's making.

The rest is an alternative narrative to usual. And given Focus will had a decade at Leicester, equally viable. Good coach once, probably?. Good coach now - results not reputation will decide.

I got the date or his sacking wrong. Big deal, it was his team that got humped, as they were in the first leg in Glasgow. And his legacy is still to work it's way out.

Definitely last post on this for now. The happy clappy tendency can keep the excuses coming


At least it's not all bad news then.
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Re: Whither now?

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sat May 04, 2019 9:57 pm

joe soap wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:I agree that he didn't pay attention to the academy but that's just rugby with money. Apart from Exeter they all try and buy success. .


I think you might be surprised at how many of the Saracens squad came from its academy or joined as 19/20/21 year old. The do sign big names, and the retain loads, but their academy is one of the best around

And out. We'll see what next season brings


Came through the academy well after they started cheating the cap and bringing in world class stars to play next to them.

Their academy is very good, it didn't get them where they are. Salary cap cheating and salary cap creativity has.
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Re: Whither now?

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sat May 04, 2019 10:01 pm

joe soap wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:There will be a fair few Edinburgh lads in Japan for the world cup


yes, there will but it doesn't make them great players But I doubt there will be 12 plus forwards in the extended training squad, never mind in the final 31. .That was the usual over inflated opinion of players in a team which managed to finish above Dragons and Kings. Whoop de doo


Dell, McInally, Nel, Berghan, Toolis, GG, Ritchie, Barclay, Watson, Bradbury will be training with is 10. Wouldn't be too surprising if two of Sutherland, McCallum, Crosbie, Ford, Cherry are there training either not that I'd have them. That's with Mata with the Fijian squad, Ceccereli maybe with Italy and Carmichael out all year.

Not bad you'll have to agree.
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Re: Whither now?

Postby biffer on Sun May 05, 2019 4:13 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
joe soap wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:There will be a fair few Edinburgh lads in Japan for the world cup


yes, there will but it doesn't make them great players But I doubt there will be 12 plus forwards in the extended training squad, never mind in the final 31. .That was the usual over inflated opinion of players in a team which managed to finish above Dragons and Kings. Whoop de doo


Dell, McInally, Nel, Berghan, Toolis, GG, Ritchie, Barclay, Watson, Bradbury will be training with is 10. Wouldn't be too surprising if two of Sutherland, McCallum, Crosbie, Ford, Cherry are there training either not that I'd have them. That's with Mata with the Fijian squad, Ceccereli maybe with Italy and Carmichael out all year.

Not bad you'll have to agree.


Have to point out Dell isn’t an Edinburgh player anymore.
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Whither now?

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun May 05, 2019 4:57 pm

biffer wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
joe soap wrote:
yes, there will but it doesn't make them great players But I doubt there will be 12 plus forwards in the extended training squad, never mind in the final 31. .That was the usual over inflated opinion of players in a team which managed to finish above Dragons and Kings. Whoop de doo


Dell, McInally, Nel, Berghan, Toolis, GG, Ritchie, Barclay, Watson, Bradbury will be training with is 10. Wouldn't be too surprising if two of Sutherland, McCallum, Crosbie, Ford, Cherry are there training either not that I'd have them. That's with Mata with the Fijian squad, Ceccereli maybe with Italy and Carmichael out all year.

Not bad you'll have to agree.


Have to point out Dell isn’t an Edinburgh player anymore.


Neither is Ford but hard to argue they weren't in the squad of the season we're currently picking bones of.
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Re: Whither now?

Postby The Feral Goat on Sun May 05, 2019 9:27 pm

Mata pro14 players player of the year

VDW golden boot

Ford chairman award

https://www.pro14rugby.org/2019/05/05/e ... on-awards/
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Re: Whither now?

Postby The Chiel on Sun May 05, 2019 10:13 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:Mata pro14 players player of the year

VDW golden boot

Ford chairman award

https://www.pro14rugby.org/2019/05/05/e ... on-awards/


Well done to all those mentioned. Do the Irish have their own awards separately ? :D
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Re: Whither now?

Postby biffer on Mon May 06, 2019 12:39 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
biffer wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Dell, McInally, Nel, Berghan, Toolis, GG, Ritchie, Barclay, Watson, Bradbury will be training with is 10. Wouldn't be too surprising if two of Sutherland, McCallum, Crosbie, Ford, Cherry are there training either not that I'd have them. That's with Mata with the Fijian squad, Ceccereli maybe with Italy and Carmichael out all year.

Not bad you'll have to agree.


Have to point out Dell isn’t an Edinburgh player anymore.


Neither is Ford but hard to argue they weren't in the squad of the season we're currently picking bones of.


I thought we were talking about covering during the World Cup.
Don't mention Rory Hutton. I did once but I think I got away with it.
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Re: Whither now?

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon May 06, 2019 8:45 pm

I was replying to Joe who was saying people said the pack could be better than Scotland's last season.

If we want to talk about absentees throw in Bhatti.
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Re: Whither now?

Postby Tichtheid on Fri May 10, 2019 9:54 pm

Having just watched Clermont win the Challenge Cup and seeing what it means to players like Benjamin Kayser, we have to make this one of our targets. I walked away from the Stoop having watched us lose to Glaws, we need to go one better.
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Re: Whither now?

Postby BruceLee on Sat May 11, 2019 8:45 am

Tichtheid wrote:Having just watched Clermont win the Challenge Cup and seeing what it means to players like Benjamin Kayser, we have to make this one of our targets. I walked away from the Stoop having watched us lose to Glaws, we need to go one better.

Yeh well done Clermont, they had purpose and looked the hungrier team, tbh, on that showing they were far to good for the Challenge cup, on the other hand ,La Rochelle were not,at present we are at best about the same standard as the losers, with on our melt down towards the end of the conference,we deserve to be in this competition next season; but Clermont when they click are a class act! Ps We should be gunning for this trophy next season, anything less than a top end finish in my opinion would be just another failure, albeit, or consistency in the league has to be better, but tbh we have more chance of winning this trophy than winning the pro 14.
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Re: Whither now?

Postby Rico on Sat May 11, 2019 9:47 am

BruceLee wrote:
Tichtheid wrote:Having just watched Clermont win the Challenge Cup and seeing what it means to players like Benjamin Kayser, we have to make this one of our targets. I walked away from the Stoop having watched us lose to Glaws, we need to go one better.

Yeh well done Clermont, they had purpose and looked the hungrier team, tbh, on that showing they were far to good for the Challenge cup, on the other hand ,La Rochelle were not,at present we are at best about the same standard as the losers, with on our melt down towards the end of the conference,we deserve to be in this competition next season; but Clermont when they click are a class act! Ps We should be gunning for this trophy next season, anything less than a top end finish in my opinion would be just another failure, albeit, or consistency in the league has to be better, but tbh we have more chance of winning this trophy than winning the pro 14.


Have to disagree here. If this season has taught us anything it's that we don't have sufficient strength and depth (maybe with the exception of the back row) and can't, therefore, compete effectively on multiple fronts.

We simply can't afford to have our best players knackered for key Pro14 games because they've played largely pointless games in Romania or Russia or wherever. And the Pro14 should *always* be our priority.

If our second XV can get us out of the Challenge Cup group stage, by all means put out full strength teams thereafter. Otherwise it should be used for developmental reasons, or for giving players game time to players returning from injury.
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Re: Whither now?

Postby Tichtheid on Sat May 11, 2019 10:33 am

We shouldn’t need an international pack to win in Russia, when the French teams come to Edinburgh it will be with a development side, we should have enough depth to get out of the group whilst giving the likes of Gilcho a few weekends off, injuries permitting.

Btw, I saw BOD on Rugby Tonight saying that Leinster had used 51 players in the Pro 14 this season.
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Re: Whither now?

Postby BruceLee on Sat May 11, 2019 4:45 pm

Sorry, should have added our below strength guys should be capable enough to get us out the group, as we all know a lot of teams pick weaker teams in the group stages.Then you have to show a bit interest if you get beyond the Quarter finals, but you might also get a group of death, it is possible, so in that respect nothing is a shoe in.
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