Cardiff Sat 5th Oct

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Re: Cardiff Sat 5th Oct

Postby New Gunner on Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:42 pm

Great result - we’d have lost that last season. Crosbie, Haining, Taylor, vdM, vdW, Holland all had good games - great for depth.

After two games last season (albeit both away, and Ulster rather than Zebre) we had 2 points. In the same fixtures last season, we got 1 point (Home defeat LBP v Cardiff, pumped away by Zebre). To achieve 9 points this time around, with the internationals away, is very pleasing.

Thought Bennett was quiet, but took his chance well. Not Fraz’s best game. Groom generally good, has a sniping threat, but caught out a few times at the base of the scrum. Farndale pretty anonymous.

Leinster away will be interesting. LBP is best case scenario - few if any will get that there this year. They’re a machine, without or without the Ireland boys.
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Re: Cardiff Sat 5th Oct

Postby robdinsdale on Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:59 pm

That was a very respectable away result.

Generally good performances from the backs, although we didn't play too wide a game. The most pleasing part for me was, when scoring the try, Taylor made the break in our half and the score was on immediately, with Bennett steaming up on one shoulder, VdM on the other and Shiel also in close support. There wasn't much danger of Cardiff stopping them.
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Re: Cardiff Sat 5th Oct

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:56 pm

Weegie wrote:
borderflanker wrote:I really like the look of Groom, has a great break, slick pass and a decent left boot on him, to me he`s our leading 9 , with Shiel on the bench, Crosbie is fantastic, abrasive & nuggety.
Hoyland at 15 does worry me occasionally as its always the counter attack from deep when at times we need the kick chase of him.


My son used to play for Currie. He describes Crosbie as the physically hardest player he has ever come across. He also takes no nonsense from anyone and is not averse to a bit of niggle.


He plays that way on the pitch, his counter ruck yesterday when destroyed their 3 was something.

Crosbie is exactly the type of player Cockers loves, it's hard on him that we also have a world class 7, a close to world class 6/7, Barclay with all his class and experience and then Mata and Bradbury who won't take a backwards step all season.
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Re: Cardiff Sat 5th Oct

Postby TheSmidge on Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:54 pm

New Gunner wrote:Leinster away will be interesting. LBP is best case scenario - few if any will get that there this year. They’re a machine, without or without the Ireland boys.


Benetton got a draw there in April against a half-strength team, but they came with a full strength squad if I recall correctly. It stands out because it was one of the very few occasions I’ve ever wanted an irish eam to win, as it would’ve helped us in the chase for the play offs!

Play like last week and we’ll be in with a chance. We’ve got to target their half backs as I don’t rate Byrne and VDW should be able to assert himself, especially if his kicking game is on point. Making sure hey don’t get. Head of steam up early will be the key. Their result last night is ample demonstration of that.
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Re: Cardiff Sat 5th Oct

Postby doedin on Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:32 am

I think the main improvement this year is that we have an attacking threat across the backs and that creates problems for defences. Last year through a combination of tactics, players and lack of support runners we were very one dimensional and all too often shovelled the ball wide without engaging defences so that Graham, Kinghorn and VdM ended up with ball, a couple of defenders and no space. In first two games we have shown real threat from 9 out so defences trying to cover all options and are struggling. Also we seem to be better at spotting mismatches and once we spot the forwards in the line we are attacking their inside shoulders and making breaks and our support runners are flooding through to score the tries.

Leinster will be far more organised and tighter in defence so it will be interesting to see if we can do same against the best defence in the league.

So far I like what I see!
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Re: Cardiff Sat 5th Oct

Postby Tichtheid on Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:01 pm

I watched the game again yesterday and Groom did lot of good stuff, one cover tackle in particular was outstanding, he offers a break and has a decent pass, if he can just get rid of that faffing about at the base he'll be a very good signing, it won't have escaped the attention of the more astute coaches in the league.
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Re: Cardiff Sat 5th Oct

Postby robdinsdale on Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:12 pm

His faffing is a bit Pyrgos-esque but his service is good. Hopefully, with two steady/reliable 9s in the squad we won't repeat last year's problem of Pyrgos getting flogged into the ground over the course of the season and Shiel will get plenty of opportunities to come on and inject some pace into the game.

I like the look of Shiel from what we are seeing, he has real gas. Maybe needs to work on his pass a little though before he will be a regular starter.
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Re: Cardiff Sat 5th Oct

Postby joe soap on Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:59 pm

doedin wrote: In first two games we have shown real threat from 9 out so defences trying to cover all options and are struggling.


Talk about confirmation bias !!!
Kennedy, Fowles and Pyrgos, whatever anyone's opinions of their overall play, all offer and offered a threat from 9. Edinburgh have not lacked a running threat from 9 since Laidlaw moved on.
I like what I've seen of Groom, barring Tichtheid's comment (which is spot on). What he has been doing is taking correct options, but even that is so much easier when your pack is providing decent ball - something the pack did not manage much last season when it counted.

Cardiff was a good test and a good result.
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Re: Cardiff Sat 5th Oct

Postby joe soap on Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:02 pm

robdinsdale wrote:His faffing is a bit Pyrgos-esque but his service is good.


its Laidlawesque. The half step and wind up is so Laidlaw. His pass is faster and more accurate though, which makes all the difference especially against better sides. And he has a break.

Totally agree about not overplaying him or anyone else. Huge and obvious mis-judgement by Cockerill last season. And not just Pyrgos
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Re: Cardiff Sat 5th Oct

Postby doedin on Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:49 am

joe soap wrote:
doedin wrote: In first two games we have shown real threat from 9 out so defences trying to cover all options and are struggling.


Talk about confirmation bias !!!
Kennedy, Fowles and Pyrgos, whatever anyone's opinions of their overall play, all offer and offered a threat from 9. Edinburgh have not lacked a running threat from 9 since Laidlaw moved on.
I like what I've seen of Groom, barring Tichtheid's comment (which is spot on). What he has been doing is taking correct options, but even that is so much easier when your pack is providing decent ball - something the pack did not manage much last season when it counted.

Cardiff was a good test and a good result.


There is more to being a threat from 9 than being able to run with ball in hand! SHC I agree was a good runner but his decision making was awful most of the time but when on his game was a dangerous runner. Fowles and Pyrgos were not really up to standard and although on occasion could run with ball in hand rarely posed a threat to opposing defences.

However the point i was making was that we have attacking options across the backline now and defences will struggle to defend against all the options. Previously our backs have just shovelled the ball across the backline or ran an arc out wide stealing the wide space from the wingers. Defences just drifted and then double manned on VdM or Graham. With Scott and Bennet running good lines then defences will need to cover their inside shoulders more and be less reluctant to drift quickly. However it all depends on good decision making to make the threat into a reality and that is where Groom will add some nous to our backs play. None of SHC, Fowles or Kennedy could ever really control a game and make the right decisions, one of the reasons they've gone! Actually think that Pyrgos will slot into our new style of play, it is more like the game he played successfully with the Weegies for years!
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Re: Cardiff Sat 5th Oct

Postby joe soap on Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:22 pm

doedin wrote:
There is more to being a threat from 9 than being able to run with ball in hand! SHC I agree was a good runner but his decision making was awful most of the time but when on his game was a dangerous runner. Fowles and Pyrgos were not really up to standard and although on occasion could run with ball in hand rarely posed a threat to opposing defences.


When folk talk of a threat from 9 I think the usually mean a direct threat. Its certainly what they mean when Laidlaw is mentioned!
That said I see the point you are making now and broadly agree that good basic scum half skills do indeed create threats from elsewhere, all over. They make it easier for the team to play.

Of course how much a scrum half can do is severely limited by what sort of ball he gets (Edinburgh have too often struggled to get quick ball more than 2 phases in a row, sometimes 2 is a stretch. Some of that is the pack, some is game plan
But I'd also agree that Fowles (and Kennedy) made too many poor decisions - as did SHC, but you are harsh on Pyrgos last season - agree he should fit the style Cockerill seem to have hopefully moved on to
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