Edinburgh squad 2020-21

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Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby The Incredible Shug on Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:56 pm

CURRENT EDINBURGH RUGBY SQUAD

1 – P Schoeman // R Sutherland // Jamie Bhatti // Sam Grahamslaw // Shaun Gunn // Cole Lamberton
2 - Stuart McInally // Dave Cherry // Mike Willemse // Sam Kitchen // Patrick Harrison
3 - WP Nel // Simon Berghan // Murray McCallum // Lee-Roy Atalifo // Dan Gamble
4 - Ben Toolis // Lewis Carmichael // Andrew Davidson // Marshall Sykes
5 - Grant Gilchrist // Fraser McKenzie // Jamie Hodgson // Charlie Jupp
6 – Jamie Ritchie // Nick Haining // Mesulame Kunavula // Jack Mann
7 - Hamish Watson // Luke Crosbie // Connor Boyle
8 – Viliame Mata // Magnus Bradbury // Rory Darge // Ben Muncaster
9 – Henry Pyrgos // Nic Groom // Charlie Shiel // Roan Frostwick
10 - Jaco van der Walt // Nathan Chamberlain† // Cameron Scott
11 - Duhan van der Merwe // Jamie Farndale // Jack Blain // Jacob Henry
12 - Chris Dean // George Taylor // Matt Gordon // Scott King
13 - Mark Bennett // James Johnstone // Jordan Venter // Matt Currie
14 - Darcy Graham // Eroni Sau // Harry Paterson
15 - Blair Kinghorn // Damien Hoyland // Nathan Sweeney

Orange denotes academy player.
† denotes player will move onto senior contract for 2021-22 season.

LEAVERS
HK • Cameron Fenton – Heriot's
LH • Darryl Marfo – Ospreys
TH • Pietro Ceccarelli – Brive
TH • Jack Stanley – Gloucester
LK • Sam Thomson
BR • John Barclay
FH • Jason Baggott – Southern Knights
FH • Simon Hickey – Hurricanes
CE • Matt Scott - Leicester Tigers
WG • Dougie Fife - Scotland Sevens

LEAVERS – LOANS
LK • Murray Douglas – Brumbies
LK • Stan South – Exeter Chiefs
BR • Matt Smith – Glasgow Warriors
BR • Ruan Steenkamp – Bulls

NEW SIGNINGS
HK: Sam Kitchen (from Ayrshire Bulls)
TH: Lee-Roy Atalifo (from Jersey Reds)
LK: Andrew Davidson (from Glasgow Warriors)
LK: Marshall Sykes (from Ayrshire Bulls)
CE: Matt Gordon (from London Scottish)
CE: Jordan Venter (from Paul Roos Gymnasium School)
WG: Jamie Farndale (from Scotland Sevens)

NEW SENIOR SIGNINGS FROM THE ACADEMY
LH: Sam Grahamslaw
TH: Dan Gamble (after one academy year)
BR: Connor Boyle
BR: Rory Darge
BR: Ben Muncaster (after one academy year)
FH: Nathan Chamberlain (after one academy year)

RE-SIGNINGS (contract duration undisclosed)
HK: Dave Cherry, Stuart McInally
LH: Pierre Schoeman, Rory Sutherland
LK: Jamie Hodgson, Ben Toolis
BR: Magnus Bradbury, Hamish Watson
SH: Charlie Shiel
CE: Mark Bennett, Chris Dean, James Johnstone, George Taylor
WG: Duhan van der Merwe
FB: Damien Hoyland

EXTRA YEAR IN CONTRACT ACTIVATED
TH: WP Nel
FH: Jaco van der Walt

INS AND OUTS

HK: Fenton • Kitchen
LH: Marfo • Grahamslaw
TH: CeccarelliAtalifo
LK: ThomsonDavidson
BR: Barclay • Boyle
FH: Hickey • Lance (this fell through)
CE: ScottGordon
WG: Fife • Farndale
Last edited by The Incredible Shug on Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:32 pm, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby joe soap on Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:21 pm

The Incredible Shug wrote:We're still using last year's erroneously-named thread for transfer and contract discussion,


it wasn't and isn't erroneously-named. By all means start a new one for next season
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby The Incredible Shug on Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:53 pm

joe soap wrote:
The Incredible Shug wrote:We're still using last year's erroneously-named thread for transfer and contract discussion,


it wasn't and isn't erroneously-named. By all means start a new one for next season

Apologies, couldn't quite find the appropriate word.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby The Incredible Shug on Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:26 pm

To get down to things:

From the list of currently out-of-contract players, the main unresolved contingent are Nel, van der Walt and Scott.

Jaco is probably the priority re-signing out of the bunch. As of yet, the squad for next year is without an stand-off; Jaco will be on less than Hickey and has arguably been the more consistent and stronger performer of the pair over the last two seasons. He also provides cover at full-back, though we've only rarely seen him there. We do know that Jaco is probably on a lesser wedge than Hickey.

Cockerill's already hinted that Hickey could leave, depending on how some other contracts work out. It seems like there's a desire to retain both fly-halves – which would be welcome, as most Pro14 teams require two good-quality #10s, and Hickey has started to put things together this season – but that Hickey's place may untenable due to a need to find economies within the squad (lots of costly re-signings this year) and that we'll go shopping for a cheaper replacement. That means that Jaco is earmarked for retention; I think he'll definitely re-sign.

This is purely conjecture, but, for all we know, it's possible that Hickey staying is dependent on Matt Scott and whether or no he re-signs. I've suggested he'll leave and someone else has apparently heard similar chatterings, with savings being cited as the reason why. Again, it's a shame if true; he's arguably been our form back this season, even more so than Duhan. If Scott stays, then it's difficult to see Hickey retaining his place in the squad, and vice-versa; I actually think it's possible that both will go, though I hope not. We'll have to wait and see. George Taylor has risen to prominence at both 12 and 13 this year, and Chris Dean captained Edinburgh from 12 during preseason, so we do have other options. Jordan Venter will be among them in years to come.

Nel is ageing, but he's still our first-choice tighthead, and he's set down some roots here; I reckon he might sign on for another year, if he doesn't retire. (Might an early end to the season might have discouraged him from retiring just yet if he was planning on doing so?).

I thought John Barclay would retire at the end of the season. It's possible that a curtailed season could mean he'd stay on, and I'd love it if he were retained in some capacity. He's still a class player, despite his injury; I remember him returning powerfully for us at the close of last season with a couple of MotM performances, and he's generally performed well this season, when he's played. He's fallen down the pecking order, but I'd love to see him fulfil a similar role to Petrus du Plessis. I think the likes of Boyle, Crosbie and Darge could still learn a great deal from him at the breakdown. Plus, he'd a handy player when Watson, Ritchie, Haining and Bradbury/Carmichael/Crosbie are away with Scotland, and Mata's with Fiji. However, Ally Miller could always make a return to the senior squad, judging by his impressive performances at the start of the season – and, for Barclay, the siren call of estate managing/coaching/coffee shop owning may be too tempting to ignore...

Fenton will depend on whether we're eyeing up a new fourth-choice hooker (notably Ashman) or not. I think Cammy's looked good this year.

Baggott is one I wouldn't usually expect to stay at the club given the fact that he's been with Southern Knights all season, but he's one of three out-of-contract fly-halves and signing a better third-choice to replace him may not be possible considering our costs – plus he also covers 12. He might get one more season.

I can see Fife going back to the sevens in a like-for-like switch with Farndale. Shame for him. I like Dougie and he's never really let us down.

That just leaves Hodgson and Thomson. I can't recall whether Thomson was explicitly signed with a view to providing cover during the World Cup, even if it wasn't on a short-term basis. I think Hodgson will get a new deal; what happens with Thomson is maybe dependent on the situation with Callum Hunter-Hill. We'll see.

In terms of new signings, I don't think we'll go through next season with only three looseheads. Even though McCallum can cover the loose side, I think he's above Atalifo in the pecking order so will be more of a tighthead next season. I think Dan Winning will be promoted from the academy to replace Stanley in the squad, and I think we may well sign a new loosehead; we definitely will if Nel doesn't stay as we'll need to commit McCallum to tighthead fully. But then again, he might not! and it's plausible that Cockerill will want to switch Murray back.
Whatever happens, I think we'll sign a new prop. There aren't many SQ ones around – I think it's just Gordon Reid at Northampton Saints, Jack Owlett (who can play at either side of the scrum) at Wasps (though I don't know whether he's OOC or not), Jon Welsh at Falcons, and, well, Darryl Marfo – so they'll probably be NSQ.

If Scott leaves, we won't replace him directly, but if Hickey leaves then I think we will buy a new fly-half, but I haven't the faintest idea who. Other than that, we're probably set for next season, aside from maybe a new, cheap back-rower to provide cover now that Haining's gone and got himself into being an excellent Scotland international.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby dolf_lundgren on Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:55 am

With the squad we have I would be tempted to splash out on Hickey, VDW & Scott and replacer rest with academy players. It is the inside backs we have long struggled for quality and now we have a bit finally we might lose them.

Ironically the current situation may play in our favour. With a lot of uncertainty players might be willing to stay for another year or 2 rather than risk making a move. Also in terms of finance, the SRU is in a relatively good state compared to other countries and clubs. If we don’t lose the AIs then the damage to income will be minimal.

I can seem English clubs in particular tightening their belts.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby The Incredible Shug on Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:40 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:With the squad we have I would be tempted to splash out on Hickey, VDW & Scott and replacer rest with academy players. It is the inside backs we have long struggled for quality and now we have a bit finally we might lose them.

Ironically the current situation may play in our favour. With a lot of uncertainty players might be willing to stay for another year or 2 rather than risk making a move. Also in terms of finance, the SRU is in a relatively good state compared to other countries and clubs. If we don’t lose the AIs then the damage to income will be minimal.

I can seem English clubs in particular tightening their belts.


Two very valid points. We do, at long last, have a genuinely international-class 'spine' to the team at 9, 10, 12 and 15 – and Scott, when he starts over Dean, is also our defensive captain. It'd be very wise to hang onto those players as best we can. I do like Hickey and think he gets our backline moving well.

I also agree that it's possible that this situation could actually make player retention easier. As you said, we've got to hope that the home AIs aren't affected. There's also the outstanding Cardiff game to consider.

(Even for Scotland, it's possible, ironically, that the likely cancellation of the summer tour might well aid the national team in the longer term. Obviously, what comes first is that the players devastatingly miss out on the chance to show what they can do in New Zealand and South Africa, which is a VERY rare and memorable opportunity as well as a chance to make a Lions statement, and it would be crushing for them to lose that, but if we didn't win a few good games then we'd slip down the world rankings – and with the 2023 RWC being judged on world rankings, we could've lost our automatic qualification status.)

Anyway, here's a look at how we look. It's set out to blend aspects of both royc's and disco's informative charts, and differentiates between NSQ players who could potentially qualify for Scotland (e.g. Duhan) and those who are tied to other nations (like Willemse). It also indicates players' own positional versatility. You can scroll along to the right to see academy players, potential leavers and those who are already departing.

I believe Duhan becomes Scotland-qualified this summer? With that in mind, I think it's more than possible, on reflection, that Dougie Fife will be retained, with a view to losing Blair, Darcy AND Duhan during international windows. That's all our first-choice back-three. We'd possibly lose Eroni Sau to Fiji as well, leaving us with just Damo, Farndale and Blain, plus JJ as an auxiliary wing. And there's a decent chance that we'd need him too, if Scott (new contract pending) and Bennett get called up.

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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby JDCSR on Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:08 pm

I wonder if any of the forwards over in France with Nice will come on board?

Ross Dunbar - Loosehead prop

Hamish Bain - Big second row

Archie Erskine - Blindside
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby New Gunner on Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:57 pm

Jaco and Nel have already had 12 month extensions optioned by the club: https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/202 ... quad-news/
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby biffer on Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:22 pm

Anyone think Grahamslaw might get a full time contract?
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby dolf_lundgren on Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:09 pm

New Gunner wrote:Jaco and Nel have already had 12 month extensions optioned by the club: https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/202 ... quad-news/


That’s good news, thanks.

I heard a while ago that there was broad agreement with Scott but not heard anything since.

I certainly wouldn’t want to be coming off contract this summer, for May players of there is an offer n the table I would be taking it. Although all offers may be off the table for the time being.

If next season is under threat, do teams take the risk and run with cheaper young players and look to tool up with a bit of spare budget next summer?
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby Ayton1keith on Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:09 pm

Being reported by Rugby Pass that Australian half back Jono Lance, presently with Worcester, set to sign for Edinburgh. If true I would imagine that Hickey will be off and will free up money to hopefully retain Matt Scott.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby dolf_lundgren on Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:03 pm

Im assuming that he will be on a bit less than Hickey. It will be interesting to see if he comes as a second choice or forst choice? I really like Hickey, he hasn't been as good as we hoped, but his ceiling is a lot higher than VDW and I think the backline moves better when he is playing.

I don't know much about Lance, but he has a decent pedigree without being jaw dropping. He has been behind Weir for the last year or so has he not? (Not a terrible thing, Weir would be first choice for us I think)
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby JDCSR on Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:57 am

biffer wrote:Anyone think Grahamslaw might get a full time contract?


That's a good shout. Very promising player.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby The Incredible Shug on Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:26 pm

Ayton1keith wrote:Being reported by Rugby Pass that Australian half back Jono Lance, presently with Worcester, set to sign for Edinburgh. If true I would imagine that Hickey will be off and will free up money to hopefully retain Matt Scott.

Full article:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/worceste ... o14-report

Australian Jono Lance is reportedly in ‘advanced talks’ about a summer switch from the Gallagher Premiership to the Guinness PRO14. The Worcester out-half first moved to Sixways on a short-term deal three years ago. He then has a short spell back in Super Rugby before penning the two-year contract in 2018 that is due to soon elapse, leaving him considering his options elsewhere.

Set to turn 30 in June, the half-back has an impressive pedigree having won Super Rugby titles at the Reds and the Waratahs and played for Australia at U20s and sevens level

According to the RugbyPaper, Lance, who has been sharing the No10 Warriors jersey with Duncan Weir this term, is believed to be highly thought of by Edinburgh boss Richard Cockerill and the Scottish club are said to be confident they will get a deal across the line.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby disco on Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:41 pm

The Incredible Shug wrote:
Ayton1keith wrote:Being reported by Rugby Pass that Australian half back Jono Lance, presently with Worcester, set to sign for Edinburgh. If true I would imagine that Hickey will be off and will free up money to hopefully retain Matt Scott.

Full article:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/worceste ... o14-report

Australian Jono Lance is reportedly in ‘advanced talks’ about a summer switch from the Gallagher Premiership to the Guinness PRO14. The Worcester out-half first moved to Sixways on a short-term deal three years ago. He then has a short spell back in Super Rugby before penning the two-year contract in 2018 that is due to soon elapse, leaving him considering his options elsewhere.

Set to turn 30 in June, the half-back has an impressive pedigree having won Super Rugby titles at the Reds and the Waratahs and played for Australia at U20s and sevens level

According to the RugbyPaper, Lance, who has been sharing the No10 Warriors jersey with Duncan Weir this term, is believed to be highly thought of by Edinburgh boss Richard Cockerill and the Scottish club are said to be confident they will get a deal across the line.

I think 'sharing the No10 Warriors jersey' is stretching things slightly - he's been the clear backup. Duncy's started at stand off 40 times for Worcester in the last 2 seasons, Lance has started 8. Interesting that he's also accomplished at full back - could end up deputising for both VDW and Kinghorn at times depending on circumstances.
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