Edinburgh squad 2020-21

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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby Impega on Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:13 pm

Status tbc - i think we have - McCallum, Carmichael, Johnstone and Sau


Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but Hamish Watson has put a 'Thanks and bye to the guys leaving' message on social media and it included images of Berghan, Duhan VDM and Sau... perhaps an indication that the latter is away, which would be a real shame.

Hopefully I'm wrong.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby robdinsdale on Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:24 pm

Impega wrote:
Status tbc - i think we have - McCallum, Carmichael, Johnstone and Sau


Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but Hamish Watson has put a 'Thanks and bye to the guys leaving' message on social media and it included images of Berghan, Duhan VDM and Sau... perhaps an indication that the latter is away, which would be a real shame.

Hopefully I'm wrong.


That would be a shame, he's been excellent this season.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby BigD163 on Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:16 pm

macdone wrote:I'm not blaming Glasgow, it's up to ourselves. I'd have kept Darge over Bradbury and Crosbie. I'd take McLean over Blain personally and Ross Thompson over Chamberlain but that's a matter of opinion!

But I do think Jamie Dobie should come and play here. He's number 3 for Glasgow but would quickly become number 1 here.


The big differences are opportunity and faith. Blain and Chamberlain would probably be thriving given the same chances and a game plan that gives them some freedom.

Glasgow willingly gives it and encourages player development. RC/DH probably owe Chamberlain tweezers to help get the skelves out his erse.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby dolf_lundgren on Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:37 pm

robdinsdale wrote:
Impega wrote:
Status tbc - i think we have - McCallum, Carmichael, Johnstone and Sau


Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but Hamish Watson has put a 'Thanks and bye to the guys leaving' message on social media and it included images of Berghan, Duhan VDM and Sau... perhaps an indication that the latter is away, which would be a real shame.

Hopefully I'm wrong.


That would be a shame, he's been excellent this season.


Agree and leaves us with very good wingers, but lacking in the power which has been a feature of our wingers.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby robdinsdale on Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:54 pm

BigD163 wrote:
macdone wrote:I'm not blaming Glasgow, it's up to ourselves. I'd have kept Darge over Bradbury and Crosbie. I'd take McLean over Blain personally and Ross Thompson over Chamberlain but that's a matter of opinion!

But I do think Jamie Dobie should come and play here. He's number 3 for Glasgow but would quickly become number 1 here.


The big differences are opportunity and faith. Blain and Chamberlain would probably be thriving given the same chances and a game plan that gives them some freedom.

Glasgow willingly gives it and encourages player development. RC/DH probably owe Chamberlain tweezers to help get the skelves out his erse.


Ross Thompson has certainly seized his chance but he's a year ahead of Chamberlain and wasn't even training with the first team in Glasgow until around about Christmas time when Brandon Thomson's game fell apart and they found themselves without a fly half. They've also gone out and signed Duncan Weir and Miotti, who are both decent and experienced fly halves, for next season. There would be an outbreak of severe tutting around here if Cockers brought in another international fly half for Chamberlain to compete with for game time.

The biggest issue for our young players is that we've been playing like a drain this season, not the amount of chances they're getting.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby joe soap on Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:36 pm

robdinsdale wrote:
Impega wrote:
Status tbc - i think we have - McCallum, Carmichael, Johnstone and Sau


Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but Hamish Watson has put a 'Thanks and bye to the guys leaving' message on social media and it included images of Berghan, Duhan VDM and Sau... perhaps an indication that the latter is away, which would be a real shame.

Hopefully I'm wrong.


That would be a shame, he's been excellent this season.


big improvement this season, and as a bonus I no longer cover my eyes when he chases a high ball
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby joe soap on Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:43 pm

robdinsdale wrote:

Ross Thompson has certainly seized his chance but he's a year ahead of Chamberlain and wasn't even training with the first team in Glasgow until around about Christmas time when Brandon Thomson's game fell apart and they found themselves without a fly half. They've also gone out and signed Duncan Weir and Miotti, who are both decent and experienced fly halves, for next season. There would be an outbreak of severe tutting around here if Cockers brought in another international fly half for Chamberlain to compete with for game time.

The biggest issue for our young players is that we've been playing like a drain this season, not the amount of chances they're getting.


Playing like a drain could apply to either team until very recently

There is a big similarity with the starting positions of Thomson and Chamberlain. To a large extent both got accelerated into match day squads due to circumstances. For both it was needs must selections. The difference is Thomson (despite not getting into those squads until much later in the season than Chamberlain) got actual game time right away whereas Chamberlain was getting skelfs. Time will tell (its too early yet, and opportunities afforded may be the decider) who will turn out better, but going on the last U20s, Chamberlain was well in front. He's now miles behind. And that is not down to how teams were playing, its simply opportunities and trust
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:49 pm

joe soap wrote:
robdinsdale wrote:

Ross Thompson has certainly seized his chance but he's a year ahead of Chamberlain and wasn't even training with the first team in Glasgow until around about Christmas time when Brandon Thomson's game fell apart and they found themselves without a fly half. They've also gone out and signed Duncan Weir and Miotti, who are both decent and experienced fly halves, for next season. There would be an outbreak of severe tutting around here if Cockers brought in another international fly half for Chamberlain to compete with for game time.

The biggest issue for our young players is that we've been playing like a drain this season, not the amount of chances they're getting.


Playing like a drain could apply to either team until very recently

There is a big similarity with the starting positions of Thomson and Chamberlain. To a large extent both got accelerated into match day squads due to circumstances. For both it was needs must selections. The difference is Thomson (despite not getting into those squads until much later in the season than Chamberlain) got actual game time right away whereas Chamberlain was getting skelfs. Time will tell (its too early yet, and opportunities afforded may be the decider) who will turn out better, but going on the last U20s, Chamberlain was well in front. He's now miles behind. And that is not down to how teams were playing, its simply opportunities and trust


And Thomson was started. His first game Vs Glasgow was Vs us in pish weather with horizontal rain and win. Glasgow allowed him to play his game and I think he was motm (although Price was excellent).

Chamberlain is hidden all game as the 9 launches box kicks or pops it to a forward pod.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby joe soap on Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:53 pm

macdone wrote:
But I do think Jamie Dobie should come and play here. He's number 3 for Glasgow but would quickly become number 1 here.


would be very nice, but its a short term take.

In the last 7 or 8 years, Glasgow have signed and developed to international standard Pyrgos, Price, Horne, Dobie; signed Matawalu and made Sean Kennedy look very decent for a while

Edinburgh equivalent is SHC, who lost his way (self and management at fault), nicked Pyrgos (who looks as if he had peaked) after demanding a 9 from Glasgow, ditched Kennedy, signed and released early average at best Groom, and developed Shiel in slow motion, but not to international standard.

I'd say Edinburgh and the SRU need to be asking why there is such a stark difference in recruitment and development of scrum halfs.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby Tichtheid on Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:00 pm

I think Glasgow have fared better than Edinburgh on coaching appointments including and since Lineen, everything else flows from that, the recruitment and the bringing players up to standard, the culture, the game plan, everything.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby dolf_lundgren on Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:02 pm

joe soap wrote:
robdinsdale wrote:

Ross Thompson has certainly seized his chance but he's a year ahead of Chamberlain and wasn't even training with the first team in Glasgow until around about Christmas time when Brandon Thomson's game fell apart and they found themselves without a fly half. They've also gone out and signed Duncan Weir and Miotti, who are both decent and experienced fly halves, for next season. There would be an outbreak of severe tutting around here if Cockers brought in another international fly half for Chamberlain to compete with for game time.

The biggest issue for our young players is that we've been playing like a drain this season, not the amount of chances they're getting.


Playing like a drain could apply to either team until very recently

There is a big similarity with the starting positions of Thomson and Chamberlain. To a large extent both got accelerated into match day squads due to circumstances. For both it was needs must selections. The difference is Thomson (despite not getting into those squads until much later in the season than Chamberlain) got actual game time right away whereas Chamberlain was getting skelfs. Time will tell (its too early yet, and opportunities afforded may be the decider) who will turn out better, but going on the last U20s, Chamberlain was well in front. He's now miles behind. And that is not down to how teams were playing, its simply opportunities and trust


Its never really fair to make direct comparisons, particulalry with a small sample of games. Thomson is a year older and had a year in S6 behind him, which Chamberlain was meant to get this year, so he has been thrown in with a bigger step than Thomson. Players mature and take to pro rugby at different rates too.

You could argue that Stafford McDowell was ahead of George Taylor a couple of years ago and isnt now, but again not a fair direct comparison.

I do agree we havent managed to bring through as many youngtser recently. But we did bring through a batch, with Ritchie, Bradbury, Crosbie, Kinghorn, Carmichael etc and the new crop of Blain, Sykes, Hodgson, Harrison look good too.

We have stuggled to bring through inside backs in particular, but outside backs we have done well and forwards have been decent. Boyle is unlucky as we just have so much depth there.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby joe soap on Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:50 pm

Tichtheid wrote:I think Glasgow have fared better than Edinburgh on coaching appointments including and since Lineen, everything else flows from that, the recruitment and the bringing players up to standard, the culture, the game plan, everything.


something in that TBF.

Cockrerill was supposed to have sorted the culture (if it hadn't already been), and good players have been recruited and developed (developed as well as they should be is a very subjective thing, can never know really).

But there has been a specific issue at 9, and I could have made the same analysis over the same 7 or 8 years period at 10 - who exactly have Edinburgh signed or developed to Scotland standard over that period (Glasgow having Russell, Hastings, Horne and now looks like Thomson; plus Weir coming back and a capped Argie)

WCP was the last decent 10 Edinburgh had if we ignore Weir's injured sojourn here; and the last one to attack the gainline.
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby joe soap on Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:57 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:
Its never really fair to make direct comparisons, particulalry with a small sample of games. Thomson is a year older and had a year in S6 behind him, which Chamberlain was meant to get this year, so he has been thrown in with a bigger step than Thomson. Players mature and take to pro rugby at different rates too.

You could argue that Stafford McDowell was ahead of George Taylor a couple of years ago and isnt now, but again not a fair direct comparison.


as per my post just then, I was really looking at half backs.
Of course no direct comparison is ever perfect, but I'm making 2 points. The general one is in those positions (9 and 10) Edinburgh's recruitment and development has been consistently poor over a long period. Its not a new issue yet .....
Second on the individuals (Chamberlain and Thomson), both were pushed into squads due to circumstances. But one was shown trust and pushed on, the other was benched for week after week without getting on, then gets a few mins, then got a start where it looked like plan to avoid passing the ball to him. A case of anything but encourage the lad and give him a proper chance - when there really was no other option except the one used recently. Kinghorn at 10 (and he was abysmal last weekend)
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby The Feral Goat on Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:14 pm

Departures confirmed on a Twitter vid

McCallum
Berghan
VDM
Sau
Willemse
Farndale
Miller
Ferreira
Nutton
Davidson

Edit Story on site now

https://www.edinburghrugby.org/the-club ... -confirmed
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Re: Edinburgh squad 2020-21

Postby The Feral Goat on Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:20 pm

Updated based on above leavers, but thin in the back 3 again perhaps.

1 – P Schoeman // R Sutherland // Boan Venter* // Sam Grahamslaw //
2 - Stuart McInally // Dave Cherry // Adam McBurney* // Patrick Harrison
3 - WP Nel // Luan DeBruin*// Lee-Roy Atalifo //Dan Gamble
4 - Ben Toolis // Lewis Carmichael (tbc) // Marshall Sykes// Pierce Philips*
5 - Grant Gilchrist // Glen Young* // Jamie Hodgson //
6 – Jamie Ritchie // Nick Haining // Mesulame Kunavula // Harri Morris
7 - Hamish Watson // Luke Crosbie // Connor Boyle
8 – Viliame Mata // Magnus Bradbury // Ben Muncaster
9 – Henry Pyrgos // Ben Vellacott* // Charlie Shiel //
10 - Jaco van der Walt // Nathan Chamberlain // Charlie Savala //
11 - Freddie Owsley* // Jack Blain //
12 - Chris Dean // George Taylor // James Lang* // Cammy Hutchison
13 - Mark Bennett // James Johnstone // Jordan Venter // Matt Currie
14 - Darcy Graham // Henry Immlemann* //
15 - Blair Kinghorn // Damien Hoyland // Harry Paterson

New Signings*

Boan Venter
Adam McBurney
Luan DeBruin
Glen Young
Pierce Philips
Ben Vellacott
Freddie Owsley
James Lang
Henry Immlemann
Last edited by The Feral Goat on Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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