Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

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Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

Postby biffer on Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:05 pm

So, I don’t know how many people have been following this, but in line with what’s been happening in US sports, the Exeter Chiefs have been getting pressurised to change their branding (not their name). Today they’ve said they’ll drop the cartoon mascot, but not anything else, and they’ll make no further comment.

So here’s the question. If we draw them in the Heineken, are we ok with middle aged white guys doing the tomahawk chop, the war cry and wearing cheap plastic Native American headdresses? Headdresses have a special place in their culture, they are earned and markers of respect. I’d be deeply uncomfortable with it, I might go as far as complain or ask the question of the SRU in advance; the terms and conditions of entry specifically state that racism won’t be tolerated.

Views?
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Re: Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

Postby The Feral Goat on Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:15 pm

For a club that appears to do a huge amount of good and has been pretty principled in terms of salary cap I find it an odd stance from Exeter, real lack of awareness.

Regards to how i would feel if we drew them, I would not want to sit next to someone in headdress, much like the club, how individuals can think it is harmless or respectful I cant see. It will be interesting to see how other prem clubs/fans deal with it when the league starts. Hopefully the exeter fans will take it on themselves to do the right thing and stop.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

Postby The Chiel on Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:13 pm

Well, I'm "unwoke" enough to believe this isn't actually the worst thing in the world, but I'm simply astonished Tony Rowe can't see the way the tide is flowing and move right away from the American Indian elements of his marketing.

Expect the social media pressure on Exeter to now be massively increased, and probably a Boris style u turn at some point.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

Postby biffer on Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:42 am

The Chiel wrote:Well, I'm "unwoke" enough to believe this isn't actually the worst thing in the world, but I'm simply astonished Tony Rowe can't see the way the tide is flowing and move right away from the American Indian elements of his marketing.

Expect the social media pressure on Exeter to now be massively increased, and probably a Boris style u turn at some point.


Pretty sure that any of their fans romping around in fancy dress or doing parody "red Indian" noises etc will get some abuse at times as well.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

Postby Rico on Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:57 am

It strikes me as a pretty easy compromise for Exeter to switch from “Chiefs” to “Chieftains” and to have a logo that was, say, more ancient Briton-y rather than Native American. As others have noted, an outright refusal to consider a change is pretty tone deaf on their part.

To be fair though, I think having a team called “Saracens” (and with a logo utilising a symbol of a major religion which is in active use across the world) is equally, if not more, problematic than “Chiefs”...
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Re: Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

Postby robdinsdale on Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:22 pm

biffer wrote:So, I don’t know how many people have been following this, but in line with what’s been happening in US sports, the Exeter Chiefs have been getting pressurised to change their branding (not their name). Today they’ve said they’ll drop the cartoon mascot, but not anything else, and they’ll make no further comment.

So here’s the question. If we draw them in the Heineken, are we ok with middle aged white guys doing the tomahawk chop, the war cry and wearing cheap plastic Native American headdresses? Headdresses have a special place in their culture, they are earned and markers of respect. I’d be deeply uncomfortable with it, I might go as far as complain or ask the question of the SRU in advance; the terms and conditions of entry specifically state that racism won’t be tolerated.

Views?


I think they should update their branding but mostly because it's an incredibly lame and unprofessional marketing concept anyway. What on Earth does it have to do with Exeter?
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Re: Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

Postby robdinsdale on Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:40 pm

Rico wrote:To be fair though, I think having a team called “Saracens” (and with a logo utilising a symbol of a major religion which is in active use across the world) is equally, if not more, problematic than “Chiefs”...


I don't think there's any need for us to get offended on anyone else's behalf. I live in an Islamic country and I can assure you that there are about a million more things that are more offensive to Islamic culture than a sports team using the crescent and the star.

I've just done some Turkish language googling about Saracens and there are no negative comments that I could find. I did find that there is a Sunday League football team set up by Turkish-Cypriots called London Saracens though.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

Postby biffer on Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:01 pm

Rico wrote:It strikes me as a pretty easy compromise for Exeter to switch from “Chiefs” to “Chieftains” and to have a logo that was, say, more ancient Briton-y rather than Native American. As others have noted, an outright refusal to consider a change is pretty tone deaf on their part.

To be fair though, I think having a team called “Saracens” (and with a logo utilising a symbol of a major religion which is in active use across the world) is equally, if not more, problematic than “Chiefs”...


Again, it's not the name, it's the branding. If Saracens had a comedy mascot that looked like this

Image

And their fans chanted a parody of the call to prayer, then they'd be doing the equivalent of Exeter.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

Postby The Chiel on Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:03 pm

There's a huge amount of roasted gammon posting on The Times comments section below an article on the change or non change depending on their point of view.

A lot is just tufton - bufton tosh, but there are several posts saying it's traditional West Country rugby terminology to call your first XV the chiefs, seconds the quins etc. News to me, but even if true, it doesn't excuse sticking to the current native american branding.

Having said all that, my main objection to the chanting is not so much potential racism, but that it's a moronic dirge.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

Postby Rico on Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:22 pm

robdinsdale wrote:
Rico wrote:To be fair though, I think having a team called “Saracens” (and with a logo utilising a symbol of a major religion which is in active use across the world) is equally, if not more, problematic than “Chiefs”...


I don't think there's any need for us to get offended on anyone else's behalf. I live in an Islamic country and I can assure you that there are about a million more things that are more offensive to Islamic culture than a sports team using the crescent and the star.

I've just done some Turkish language googling about Saracens and there are no negative comments that I could find. I did find that there is a Sunday League football team set up by Turkish-Cypriots called London Saracens though.


Now I’m confused. So we should get offended on behalf of one group (Native Americans) for the misappropriation of their culture, heritage and imagery, but not another (Muslims)? Not quite sure how that works.

And I’m quite sure that sport team logos are not the absolute #1 priority for Native Americans either (compared to, say, the theft and pollution of their land, rampant poverty and inequality, and systematic racial discrimination) but that doesn’t mean they can’t care about it too.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

Postby Rico on Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:37 pm

biffer wrote:
Rico wrote:It strikes me as a pretty easy compromise for Exeter to switch from “Chiefs” to “Chieftains” and to have a logo that was, say, more ancient Briton-y rather than Native American. As others have noted, an outright refusal to consider a change is pretty tone deaf on their part.

To be fair though, I think having a team called “Saracens” (and with a logo utilising a symbol of a major religion which is in active use across the world) is equally, if not more, problematic than “Chiefs”...


Again, it's not the name, it's the branding. If Saracens had a comedy mascot that looked like this

Image

And their fans chanted a parody of the call to prayer, then they'd be doing the equivalent of Exeter.


I think we might just have to agree to disagree since the names of both teams strikes me as being as much of an issue as the logos. And calling yourself “Fez Boys” doesn’t really help the “Saracens isn’t offensive” case either.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

Postby robdinsdale on Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:57 pm

Rico wrote:
robdinsdale wrote:
Rico wrote:To be fair though, I think having a team called “Saracens” (and with a logo utilising a symbol of a major religion which is in active use across the world) is equally, if not more, problematic than “Chiefs”...


I don't think there's any need for us to get offended on anyone else's behalf. I live in an Islamic country and I can assure you that there are about a million more things that are more offensive to Islamic culture than a sports team using the crescent and the star.

I've just done some Turkish language googling about Saracens and there are no negative comments that I could find. I did find that there is a Sunday League football team set up by Turkish-Cypriots called London Saracens though.


Now I’m confused. So we should get offended on behalf of one group (Native Americans) for the misappropriation of their culture, heritage and imagery, but not another (Muslims)? Not quite sure how that works.

And I’m quite sure that sport team logos are not the absolute #1 priority for Native Americans either (compared to, say, the theft and pollution of their land, rampant poverty and inequality, and systematic racial discrimination) but that doesn’t mean they can’t care about it too.


Perhaps we should listen to the groups in question before we decide what they find offensive. There's lots of comment out there by Native Americans showing how they feel about the cartoon chief imagery etc.

As far as I can tell, Muslims don't find the term Saracens offensive and aren't that bothered by the use of the crescent and star either.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

Postby Pitfitter446 on Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:21 pm

What next? C U Jimmy wigs banned?
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Re: Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

Postby biffer on Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:55 pm

Pitfitter446 wrote:What next? C U Jimmy wigs banned?


Are Scots an oppressed group who are discriminated against?
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Re: Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

Postby Pitfitter446 on Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:08 pm

Nicola would have us believe so.
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