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The Chiel wrote:monkey wrote:Lot of complaining about the ref on here
I think it's pretty mild compared to what would have happened on some forums. The truly moronic selection of an Irish ref, 2 Scottish TJs and a Scottish panel TMO born and bred in Belfast, only serves to show that Greg Garner is not fit for purpose, regardless of Cockers nod to him about it. Additional pressure on officials that was totally unnecessary.
The TJs were anonymous. I actually can't remember many offside penalties ( but stand to be corrected ) and I don't think that was just due to supremely well drilled defences. And I'm pretty sure someone ( Paterson ? ) told Murphy to upgrade his last minute call from knock on to penalty. Most forums would have gone ballistic, even though it was the right call.
Murphy got most things right, and although inconsistent at the ruck, I haven't seen a ref since resumption who hasn't been. He did miss some neck rolls, but no one helped him out. But as posters have mainly said, this was to a very large degree self inflicted. Murphy was the one reffing when Embra were going 12 points up.
I really thought first half Edinburgh had got it right. Loads of involvement from DVDM ( at last ) and some pretty solid defence. To then miss opportunities and to drop off so badly in the last 20 minutes was really poor, and so disappointing. The point about leadership is well made.
However only fair that the last word goes to Ulster, who recovered and fought back brilliantly regardless of any Embra issues. And to Madigan. Not one but two wonderful pressure kicks. As said elsewhere, baws of steel.
sammy wrote:
I also think it the appointment of a non-neutral ref warrants condemnation - I guess Covid would be the reason, but it doesn't wash with me. This was a show case game and warranted the effort to get one, not so doing undermined the competition, and it's not good enough. Can you imagine the 6N doing similar. Was always going to leave a bad taste when the game comes down to a one penalty difference - given or overlooked (I don't think anyone would argue the last one).
I'm not saying the ref consciously took sides and saying he a did would be wrong as I do think you have to trust their integrity, but unconscious bias is a real thing, companies train people to mitigate it. I also recognise that every comment by either side supporters suffers from this too, it's a natural response to be one eyed.
sammy wrote:monkey wrote:Lot of complaining about the ref on here
Not probably a common or popular view, but I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing a referees performance and decisions any more than a players in a professional game, it should drive up standards, and the Pro14 needs to improve here. It's very different at amateur level obviously as they give up their time for free. I think this is were that attitude comes from, and I won't be beholden to it.
I also think it the appointment of a non-neutral ref warrants condemnation - I guess Covid would be the reason, but it doesn't wash with me. This was a show case game and warranted the effort to get one, not so doing undermined the competition, and it's not good enough. Can you imagine the 6N doing similar. Was always going to leave a bad taste when the game comes down to a one penalty difference - given or overlooked (I don't think anyone would argue the last one).
I'm not saying the ref consciously took sides and saying he a did would be wrong as I do think you have to trust their integrity, but unconscious bias is a real thing, companies train people to mitigate it.
joe soap wrote:sammy wrote:
I also think it the appointment of a non-neutral ref warrants condemnation - I guess Covid would be the reason, but it doesn't wash with me. This was a show case game and warranted the effort to get one, not so doing undermined the competition, and it's not good enough. Can you imagine the 6N doing similar. Was always going to leave a bad taste when the game comes down to a one penalty difference - given or overlooked (I don't think anyone would argue the last one).
I'm not saying the ref consciously took sides and saying he a did would be wrong as I do think you have to trust their integrity, but unconscious bias is a real thing, companies train people to mitigate it. I also recognise that every comment by either side supporters suffers from this too, it's a natural response to be one eyed.
take the appointment up with Cockerill, he approved it when he could have said "it would be a better look if it was a neutral set of officials"
I'm not taking it up with anyone, just expressing an opinion. Cockerill has railed against non-neutral referees in the past, and I don't understand why he was happy this time. Also don't think Cockerill is beyond reproach e.g. it's a 23 man game but too often our bench isn't trusted/ doesn't have the necessary resources
And not all refs have a natural response to be one eyed about their "native" team. Scottish refs have long been notoriously the exception for example, usually bending so far over backwards to be seen to be neutral that they actively seem to have a downer on the Scottish team. Could be one reason they don't get far of course
So Scottish refs aren't to be trusted, but Irish refs are without question. If everything was reversed and it was a Scottish ref and Edinburgh has won, you think Ulster supporters would be happy. If travel concerns it should have been a home ref, just imagine how that would have gone down across the water.
Murphy missed stuff both ways, he wasn't even going to give a pen for Willemse's offence, when it was clearly one.
I have already said it was the correct decision (led by a Scottish official), and I also have stated he didn't deliberately ref with bias, but it's still a bad appointment.
He missed couple of neck rolls/half neck rolls but TBH that isn't where the game was won and lost. Not even close
sammy wrote:For the purposes of rugby Ulster are Irish, and play for the Irish national team.
sammy wrote:I would like neutral referrers for important games. I really don't understand why that's a contentious point of view and happens in most sports. You clearly don't, your welcome to your opinion.
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