Challenge cup QF Sat 19th 1230

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Re: Challenge cup QF Sat 19th 1230

Postby Pitfitter446 on Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:23 pm

I suppose with the Covid resurgence spectators are likely to be at home?
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Re: Challenge cup QF Sat 19th 1230

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:34 pm

We won't win knockouts until there's more to our attack than one out runners and relying on individual magic from individuals
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Re: Challenge cup QF Sat 19th 1230

Postby The Chiel on Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:22 pm

Tichtheid wrote:

Desperately looking for plus points, . .


Scrum ( apart from one pen for a wheel which I thought was Bordeaux driving sideways ) was rock solid throughout, and through all the personnel changes. Line out however always looked under pressure.

Just stupid mistakes from kick off to final whistle. However the age old scottish tactic of pretending we're utter jamesmatthew for the first 20 minutes and lull them into a sense of false security seems to still have it's place.
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Re: Challenge cup QF Sat 19th 1230

Postby doedin on Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:35 pm

Never going to win after first 10 mins against a team like this. Too many individual mistakes and team looked rusty across the park. We didnt seem ready to start the game and it took 30 mins for us to realise we could compete and even win the game.

Having said all that we were still in the game until the last few minutes and in Sheil we had a young SH come of age. He was superb even when under pressure and showed a maturity to his game that should enable him to be first choice this season. I also thought that Dean looked very strong when he came on, and I am not his biggest fan to be fair! Graham and Hoyland both played well but Kinghorn just looks a bit off the pace and cost us a try when he should have fed the winger when through. Pack is as good as any we have seen so far, and matched them throughout the game but we did lose a few turnovers with poor and slow clear outs. Bradbury and Haining made a difference when they came on and carried strongly. Perhaps we have to be more selective with Big Bill and start him in the right matches and keep him on the bench for others. He could make a real impact when fresh coming off the bench against tired opponents. I thought we needed to be gritty and dirty to start with against their pack and thats not really his game. Having said that the ground he made up to make the try saving tackle on Lam was just astounding. I also thought the Bordeaux scrum drove in to win the penalty.

I suspect we lost that game before we kicked off, the mentality didnt seem right. Cockers will be furious and knows we have let two games slip in a couple of weeks. Glad I'm not on that training paddock! Disappointed but moving in right direction.
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Re: Challenge cup QF Sat 19th 1230

Postby monkey on Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:52 pm

I’ve thought in both cup games that you’ve looked like a team terrified of losing. I really don’t understand why RC heaps so much public pressure on the side. I asked this after the Ulster game, but do Edinburgh fans think that has a positive effect on performances on the pitch? I otherwise rate him as a coach and think he was exactly what was needed to change the culture at Edinburgh. But I can’t shake the feeling he’s creating a situation where the players don’t believe they can win cup games, rather than fixing it, tbh.
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Re: Challenge cup QF Sat 19th 1230

Postby sammy on Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:04 pm

Have to say I wasn't as up for this - as excited, and the players seemed the same. I hope the covid positive player shenanigans didn't have impact.

I was reading Joe's post re: benching Mata and thinking WTF, until he mentioned the superb try saving tackle, hope he's ok, as while we have worthy replacements he's one of our star players. Graham being one of the others, a joy to watch. I do wish Scott was with us, his fault as much as anyone for sitting on an offer, but with Dean and Taylor on the books was an understandable decision by Edinburgh. Kinghorn non pass just not good enough though, he wasn't great the last game either, I'd drop or bench him for next time out, needs to know he's no shoo in.

We have got a good hardworking team, so the future is bright. Just wish they believed themselves a bit more. So close but no cigar. A bit more rugby smarts and leadership, fewer mental dips, and we can win these types of games.
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Re: Challenge cup QF Sat 19th 1230

Postby sammy on Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:17 pm

monkey wrote:I’ve thought in both cup games that you’ve looked like a team terrified of losing. I really don’t understand why RC heaps so much public pressure on the side. I asked this after the Ulster game, but do Edinburgh fans think that has a positive effect on performances on the pitch? I otherwise rate him as a coach and think he was exactly what was needed to change the culture at Edinburgh. But I can’t shake the feeling he’s creating a situation where the players don’t believe they can win cup games, rather than fixing it, tbh.


RC's really got to make a public deal of these games, to attacked punters and sponsorship etc. Who knows what he does out of the glare, I'd hope it doesn't involve a hair dryer as I doubt that would be helpful.

I don't think we've really got the experience of being in these kind games (but seem fine when it comes to 1872 games), so maybe next time around. It's also difficult to know how each individual player will respond to pressure and different prep methods. Haining slotted right in when asking to step up for Scotland so seems to suit these games, but others maybe play within themselves or are scared of making a mistake. Don't think the break helped some of our guys either.
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Re: Challenge cup QF Sat 19th 1230

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:08 pm

Totally agree. Edinburgh play like a team trying not to lose rather than go out and win it. I think we really need to start adding attacking flair into the gameplan rather than rely on one of the back three to do something special.
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Re: Challenge cup QF Sat 19th 1230

Postby doedin on Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:44 pm

sammy wrote:Have to say I wasn't as up for this - as excited, and the players seemed the same. I hope the covid positive player shenanigans didn't have impact.

I was reading Joe's post re: benching Mata and thinking WTF, until he mentioned the superb try saving tackle, hope he's ok, as while we have worthy replacements he's one of our star players. Graham being one of the others, a joy to watch. I do wish Scott was with us, his fault as much as anyone for sitting on an offer, but with Dean and Taylor on the books was an understandable decision by Edinburgh. Kinghorn non pass just not good enough though, he wasn't great the last game either, I'd drop or bench him for next time out, needs to know he's no shoo in.

We have got a good hardworking team, so the future is bright. Just wish they believed themselves a bit more. So close but no cigar. A bit more rugby smarts and leadership, fewer mental dips, and we can win these types of games.


I made the comment about benching Big Bill. I agree he is one of our top players but in a game like this away in France you know that they are going to try and pummel us up front at the start of the game and try and dominate the set pieces. Whilst Big Bill can play a tight game with the best of them this is not what he brings to the game. I would have had the likes of Haining and/or Bradbury on from the start to front up to the inevitable tight forward battle and then bring on Big Bill at half time/50mins as their forwards tire and the game breaks up and becomes more open. This is when he is worth his weight in gold and would create chances for us. Tiring him out, and in this case get injured, in the first half when things are tight and close contact is not the best use of his undoubted talents. Its not about not playing him but deciding when he will have the greatest impact. If I was a knackered french forward with 30 mins of the game to go the last person I would like to see come onto the pitch fit, fresh and raring to go would be Big Bill!
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Re: Challenge cup QF Sat 19th 1230

Postby liveinhope on Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:13 pm

Agreed.I posted before the game that I would have started Haining (and Crosbie).After watchuing what unfolded I stick by that.
On reflection a huge chance lost-they were on the ropes with ten minutes to go and down to 14 men.Oh dear...
(Still given after ten minutes it looked like they would put 50 plus on us like Cockerill I'm not really complaining!)
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Re: Challenge cup QF Sat 19th 1230

Postby sammy on Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:56 pm

doedin wrote:
sammy wrote:Have to say I wasn't as up for this - as excited, and the players seemed the same. I hope the covid positive player shenanigans didn't have impact.

I was reading Joe's post re: benching Mata and thinking WTF, until he mentioned the superb try saving tackle, hope he's ok, as while we have worthy replacements he's one of our star players. Graham being one of the others, a joy to watch. I do wish Scott was with us, his fault as much as anyone for sitting on an offer, but with Dean and Taylor on the books was an understandable decision by Edinburgh. Kinghorn non pass just not good enough though, he wasn't great the last game either, I'd drop or bench him for next time out, needs to know he's no shoo in.

We have got a good hardworking team, so the future is bright. Just wish they believed themselves a bit more. So close but no cigar. A bit more rugby smarts and leadership, fewer mental dips, and we can win these types of games.


I made the comment about benching Big Bill. I agree he is one of our top players but in a game like this away in France you know that they are going to try and pummel us up front at the start of the game and try and dominate the set pieces. Whilst Big Bill can play a tight game with the best of them this is not what he brings to the game. I would have had the likes of Haining and/or Bradbury on from the start to front up to the inevitable tight forward battle and then bring on Big Bill at half time/50mins as their forwards tire and the game breaks up and becomes more open. This is when he is worth his weight in gold and would create chances for us. Tiring him out, and in this case get injured, in the first half when things are tight and close contact is not the best use of his undoubted talents. Its not about not playing him but deciding when he will have the greatest impact. If I was a knackered french forward with 30 mins of the game to go the last person I would like to see come onto the pitch fit, fresh and raring to go would be Big Bill!


Apologies to both for getting my names mixed up.

I didn't really intend to disput your post, more I was just so impressed by that tackle that even though you pointed it out, I wanted to mention again. I'd be happy to start Hanning, but there is a risk associated with bringing on replacements too early too then getting injured, and Mata seems to be Cockrills fav. That said I thought Mata played too much last year, and our back row options are too good for them not all to get good game time to stay sharp.
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Re: Challenge cup QF Sat 19th 1230

Postby dolf_lundgren on Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:03 pm

haven't managed to see in full yet.

Sounds like the reverse of the Ulster game for us, apart from the stirring win at the end. HIghlights showed some pretty basic errors and some great stuff.

I really think it is a mental thing now, we don't seem to have the killer instinct to really put chances away and build pressure on teams. This one in isolation, losing away to one of the top French teams is not a huge surprise, but building on Ulster, Munster, Cardiff etc where we blew good posotions it is becoming a pattern.

Not sure how to fix it, what I would agree with is that we played some of our best rugby last season with Haining and Crosbie in the side. We also really miss Matt Scott and strangely during the Ulster game I had a real hankering for Hickey to come on and just play smart rugby, something he was very good at.

We have to go again this year though and build on this.
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Re: Challenge cup QF Sat 19th 1230

Postby Martin Bell on Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:08 pm

I do agree with doedin's point about Big Bill. If we had started with Haining at 8 and made the change at half time or 50 minutes, he could have done a lot of damage against a wilting pack. I'd like to see us use him that way from time to time. Both Haining and Bradbury are more than capable of getting over the gainline. Given the strength in depth we have in most positions now, we can pose different tactical challenges during a game.
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