Scarlets.v edinburgh 6:45 Sunday 1st nov

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Re: Scarlets.v edinburgh 6:45 Sunday 1st nov

Postby Tichtheid on Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:29 pm

The Player will be free to play from midnight on December 13, 2020


George Taylor won't be.
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Re: Scarlets.v edinburgh 6:45 Sunday 1st nov

Postby joe soap on Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:12 pm

TheSmidge wrote:Five week ban, reduced from ten:

https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/discipli ... T0XVEZatGo


surprised and pleased it was deemed top end, glad to have been wrong on that. Had he been Irish they would appeal and have 12 barristers providing arguments of precedent to show how harsh that was and Taylor was at fault.

And like everyone else, still dismayed that 5 weeks is thought sufficient and that the (virtually) automatic nice biscuits 50% discount was applied.

Pro14 don't usually publish the panel deliberations IIRC? Could make for interesting reading
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Re: Scarlets.v edinburgh 6:45 Sunday 1st nov

Postby dolf_lundgren on Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:29 pm

Hmm, I agree the discounting is always a bit odd. If they really want to stop this behaviour then why discount it? We rarely hear of anything being added on for a poor record, so it would be better to say in the laws, this is a 5wk top end and it can be upto doubled for a pattern of behaviour or poor record.

The almost mandatory 50% deduction makes it a mockery, they have also on occasions twisted that to say a player with a porr record hadn't been done for that specific offence in the past so applied it again.

This is not really about this case, but the system as a whole. What would a Tongan have got for that in a game vs a Teir 1 country?
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Re: Scarlets.v edinburgh 6:45 Sunday 1st nov

Postby Pitfitter446 on Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:55 pm

I think the 50% reduction is wrong in any case, the act has a sentence and it should be applied, who is going to appear and not make apologies etc, 10 weeks I would have accepted but did he actually do anything to mitigate leniency.
Last edited by Pitfitter446 on Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scarlets.v edinburgh 6:45 Sunday 1st nov

Postby Croft_No.6 on Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:20 pm

Considering his attitude on the night (and those of other Scarlets Players to Taylor at the time) there was little contrition shown. I wonder if he has aopologised to ER and Taylor since
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Re: Scarlets.v edinburgh 6:45 Sunday 1st nov

Postby BigD163 on Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:36 am

TheSmidge wrote:
BigD163 wrote:
TheSmidge wrote:Objectively speaking, as much as I possibly can, I can't see how this is a mid-level entry point given the serious outcome for George Taylor.

If this is a 6-weeks-down-to-3-weeks sanction because he ordered the panel a nice packet of M&S biscuits each through Ocado (seeing as you can't take the biscuits to the meeting any more) then I will be disappointed, although not surprised.

It was a horrendous tackle with a horrible outcome, so should be dealt with severely, but I'm not holding my breath.


As much as I may not like it, I can't see that the resulting injury can be taken into account. If his face hadn't been broken it is still equally as bad a tackle, should reckless play get less of a ban because the victims bones are slightly stronger or was hit a few cm in the face differently? I don't believe so.

The tackle was very poor (being generous) and he has led with the head and it should be judged on the tackle rather than the resultant injury. For me the tackle regardless of injury or lack of an injury should be dealt with harshly.

I understand the viewpoint that Taylors injury should mean a lengthier ban but even allowing for no injury I still see that as needing a 10+ week ban after deductions.


I'm certain that there have been disciplinary decisions in the past that have taken outcome to the tackled player into account. While it is not part of World Rugby's decision framework so cannot be part of the on-field process, it is explicitly one of the factors to be taken into account by the disciplinary panels, as can be found in Regulation 17.19.2(h):

the effect of the Player’s actions on the victim (for example, extent of injury, removal of victim Player from the game)


The full regulation can be found here: https://www.world.rugby/handbook/regula ... -17/reg-17

However, we will have to wait on the disciplinary panel, which should be before the next round of fixtures, i.e. today or tomorrow.


Hadn't spotted that. Ta.
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Re: Scarlets.v edinburgh 6:45 Sunday 1st nov

Postby The Feral Goat on Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:57 pm

Croft_No.6 wrote:Considering his attitude on the night (and those of other Scarlets Players to Taylor at the time) there was little contrition shown. I wonder if he has aopologised to ER and Taylor since


"Scarlets accepted the verdict, adding: "We have spoken to Josh at length about the incident and he fully accepts he got his tackle technique wrong and the coaches are working with him on that.

"We would also like to make it clear that after the match Josh went into the medical room to check on George and to apologise.

"We have also spoken to Edinburgh about putting Josh in touch with George once he recovers."
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Re: Scarlets.v edinburgh 6:45 Sunday 1st nov

Postby Tichtheid on Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:54 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:
Croft_No.6 wrote:Considering his attitude on the night (and those of other Scarlets Players to Taylor at the time) there was little contrition shown. I wonder if he has aopologised to ER and Taylor since


"Scarlets accepted the verdict, adding: "We have spoken to Josh at length about the incident and he fully accepts he got his tackle technique wrong and the coaches are working with him on that.

"We would also like to make it clear that after the match Josh went into the medical room to check on George and to apologise.

"We have also spoken to Edinburgh about putting Josh in touch with George once he recovers."



Excuse my cynical interpretation, but that just means he was told to do that by Scarlets staff so as the get the best possible outcome at the disciplinary hearing.
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Re: Scarlets.v edinburgh 6:45 Sunday 1st nov

Postby doedin on Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:09 pm

Tichtheid wrote:
The Feral Goat wrote:
Croft_No.6 wrote:Considering his attitude on the night (and those of other Scarlets Players to Taylor at the time) there was little contrition shown. I wonder if he has aopologised to ER and Taylor since


"Scarlets accepted the verdict, adding: "We have spoken to Josh at length about the incident and he fully accepts he got his tackle technique wrong and the coaches are working with him on that.

"We would also like to make it clear that after the match Josh went into the medical room to check on George and to apologise.

"We have also spoken to Edinburgh about putting Josh in touch with George once he recovers."



Excuse my cynical interpretation, but that just means he was told to do that by Scarlets staff so as the get the best possible outcome at the disciplinary hearing.


Agree - Scarlets managing the issue here! This was not a 'technical' tackle issue as Scarlets describe it but again 'managing' the issue. 5 weeks is way too light, the 10 weeks would have been far more appropriate. Not sure rugby is going to eradicate the whole high tackle and concussion issue if this is the end result. Sends out completely the wrong message.
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Re: Scarlets.v edinburgh 6:45 Sunday 1st nov

Postby KenMavor on Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:44 am

Just watching the All Blacks versus Australia game and 35 minutes in two players already sent off for high tackles. By the law pretty sure both were red cards although one looked far worse than the other. Also felt, rightly or wrongly, that the ref, with the first red card made a rod for his own back and the second red, for Australia, had to be a red as well. Something needs to get fixed otherwise the game will descend into a farce.
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Re: Scarlets.v edinburgh 6:45 Sunday 1st nov

Postby dolf_lundgren on Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:28 pm

Haven’t seen those cards, but he obvious fix is players learning to tackle lower. It is the only acceptable change.

It would look horrendous if rugby now backed off punishing high shots.
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Re: Scarlets.v edinburgh 6:45 Sunday 1st nov

Postby doedin on Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:52 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:Haven’t seen those cards, but he obvious fix is players learning to tackle lower. It is the only acceptable change.

It would look horrendous if rugby now backed off punishing high shots.


They can't back off, the medical evidence is pretty overwhelming re high tackles and concussion, and to not implement and follow through with the high tackle issue would lead to all sorts of legal issues, compensation claims, etc. The genie is out the bottle now so they have to follow through and enforce the laws properly. If not then the game will die as no one will provide insurance cover etc.
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Re: Scarlets.v edinburgh 6:45 Sunday 1st nov

Postby BigD163 on Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:39 pm

KenMavor wrote:Just watching the All Blacks versus Australia game and 35 minutes in two players already sent off for high tackles. By the law pretty sure both were red cards although one looked far worse than the other. Also felt, rightly or wrongly, that the ref, with the first red card made a rod for his own back and the second red, for Australia, had to be a red as well. Something needs to get fixed otherwise the game will descend into a farce.


Don't agree. Anyone sent off for a high tackle on a second row, who hasn't dropped his body height significantly, shouldn't have any complaints. Whitelock is 6ft 8, he has about 6ft worth of body they are allowed to tackle.

I thought the All Black was slightly unlucky but again, if you go high then it is your own fault.
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