v Zebre 23rd January

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Re: v Zebre 23rd January

Postby JDCSR on Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:45 pm

Does anyone look at Willemse and wonder why we signed him and released Fenton?

Similarly with Hodgson emerging and a prospect like Sykes poached from Glasgow, why sign Ferreira?

I've no issue with South African players but sometimes feel in the tight 5 it's become the default option rather than looking close to home.

Grahamslaw was a great prospect but doesn't get on the pitch and will be well down the pecking order when Venter rocks up. Venter looks great but some of our young players must despair.
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Re: v Zebre 23rd January

Postby JDCSR on Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:46 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
JDCSR wrote:Shame to see Grahamslaw and Chamberlain unused. Again.

A win is a win though. Farndale looks to have a good all round game, been solid everytime I've see him for us.


Farndale is a great story. Unreal age grade player, career ruined by two horrendous knee injuries, becomes a good 7s player and then finds some 15s game time.


Agreed 100%! And it's a testament to the 7s program as similarly Robbie Fergusson's career was derailed by cancer, 7s kept him in the game and he's been solid for Glasgow this season. Miller is another one who has been more than handy whenever we infrequently see him.
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Re: v Zebre 23rd January

Postby joe soap on Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:52 pm

Pitfitter446 wrote:I thought the Red was harsh too, man was trying to turn away from the tackle, but they will say need to go lower to prevent mistakes?


he lined him up high. If you do that its always now a high risk. Simple as. Taylor isn't a nasty player or anything but like many many others he will need to adjust that tackle. and coaches need to take responsibility as well -player shave been coached to hit high either to dislodge the ball or slow it up by holding the player up - ie no requirement to release.

The red was not harsh, it was nailed on these days. It was harsh in the days when no-one gave SteveWalsh about the long term effects of concussions. I hope we have moved on and see, accept this for what it was nowadays. Poor technique with all too frequent consequence
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Re: v Zebre 23rd January

Postby joe soap on Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:57 pm

JDCSR wrote:Shame to see Grahamslaw and Chamberlain unused. Again.

A win is a win though. Farndale looks to have a good all round game, been solid everytime I've see him for us.


I suppose the red card put paid to both, especially Grahamslaw getting on. But the obvious way to beat a rush defence simply is not in VDW's skill set. It is in Chamberlain's
Alternatively it is is VDW's skill set, but he is not allowed to use it, just a she is not allowed to stand flat and attack the gainline

Farndale and Hoyland are not the best wingers in the world, but they are both good and very much good pro14 standard, and would score loads of tries in a different side
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Re: v Zebre 23rd January

Postby joe soap on Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:00 pm

JDCSR wrote:Does anyone look at Willemse and wonder why we signed him and released Fenton?

Similarly with Hodgson emerging and a prospect like Sykes poached from Glasgow, why sign Ferreira?

I've no issue with South African players but sometimes feel in the tight 5 it's become the default option rather than looking close to home.

Grahamslaw was a great prospect but doesn't get on the pitch and will be well down the pecking order when Venter rocks up. Venter looks great but some of our young players must despair.


Willemse has been a liability since signed. He does nothing Fenton didn't do, but does most less well at higher cost. He also has a habit of giving away stupid crucial pens. As to the lineout, he couldn't hit the side of a barn if he was standing inside it
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Re: v Zebre 23rd January

Postby The Feral Goat on Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:00 pm

Ferreira was brought in as injury cover. Given McKenzie and Carmichael have not appeared plus gilchrist was injured left us with only toolis as an established lock for a while. Davidson (now injured as well) has played well and Hodgson has bulked up and is looking a really good prospect but we are still thin in second row for now. Ferreira is not a world beater but was available when needed.

Willemse agree has not looked great, we have kitchen from Ayr, any academy hookers?
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Re: v Zebre 23rd January

Postby dolf_lundgren on Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:37 pm

A pretty decent performance all in, particularly given the issues wit travel, testing etc.

A fair few positives, we looked to spread the ball more ad VDW looked like he had more license to play, a cynic might suggest that Cockers not being there might have something to do with that, although we did try to play vs Glasgow it just didn't come off. Mata looked very good, Crosbie seems to have gone off the boil a little, needs to up the intensity as he seems to have dropped a bit, last season and early this season (I get confused which is which) he was the one setting the standard in linespeed and aggression, he just seems slightly off it now.

Farndale looked very good, he is a very solid performer, Tagive seems to be ahead of him for Scotland, but I know which one I would rather have at the moment.

The ref was, meh, but we didn't help ourselves, a sickener for Taylor given the lay of he has had, on the plus side he was showing no ill effects and in the short time he was on looked good.

Willemse has been dodgy at the lineout all the time he has been here, he is however very good in a lot of other facets, he carries and clears rucks well, I don't think he is a dead loss but the lineout is a glaring problem. Tough to sort out once your confidence has gone, Stevie Scott is who we need to sort that I think.

A win and sadly an away win at Zebre probably isn't a given at the moment, so onwards we go and hopefully a bit more confidence in our play.
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Re: v Zebre 23rd January

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:41 pm

That's a bit too cynical Dolf - Cockers still came up with the gameplan and was in charge virtually.

I agree about Crosbie he looked good off the bench though. I think we have too many starting calibre backrows. But Mata, Watson start regardless of what happens and so Bradbury and Crosbie don't get enough consistent and regular starts so their seasons are always stop start. A good problem to have but you get patchy form from fringe players.

I've always quite liked Tagive - think he's very good in the air and a good finisher. I doubt he or Farndale get a Scotland cap mind.
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Re: v Zebre 23rd January

Postby dolf_lundgren on Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:25 am

Friday Knight Lights wrote:That's a bit too cynical Dolf - Cockers still came up with the gameplan and was in charge virtually.

I agree about Crosbie he looked good off the bench though. I think we have too many starting calibre backrows. But Mata, Watson start regardless of what happens and so Bradbury and Crosbie don't get enough consistent and regular starts so their seasons are always stop start. A good problem to have but you get patchy form from fringe players.

I've always quite liked Tagive - think he's very good in the air and a good finisher. I doubt he or Farndale get a Scotland cap mind.

Moi cynical? Was reaching a bit with that.

To be honest, Glasgow use Tagive so sparingly its hard to tell. To be honest, Im not sure I would swap Sau or Farndale for any of Glasgows wingers, other than Seymore, it is a huge turnaround.

yes, the danger of having too many options is they all end up undercooked. I thought Haining was very good today and Bradbury did well in the second row, would that be an option for him long term? He is big enough and would offer a huge amount around the park.
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Re: v Zebre 23rd January

Postby Trophyhunter on Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:29 am

Was looking at ER history playing Zebre away . It’s really poor . This was our 3rd win in 8 apparently snd given Zebre’s recent improved form an excellent and deserved win . Watson, Schoeman snd Gilchrist were outstanding and showed their class . Jaco led well and all the backs played well. Dean looked likes he needs a rest though and it hopefully the ridiculously red carded Taylor can share rotation in the coming months. He looked full of energy and vigour on his return.
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Re: v Zebre 23rd January

Postby Frenchy on Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:28 am

Thanks for Argentina insights. Now occurs that it could be some sort of mnemonic for the things they want to focus on

All together
Ready
Go!
No backwards steps
etc.

Except, with more than five seconds thought put into it...
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Re: v Zebre 23rd January

Postby liveinhope on Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:59 am

I've had a fresh look at the Taylor tackle.If you go through it frame by frame the Italian player definitely ducks very shortly before Taylor makes contact making it well nigh impossible to avoid contact with his shoulder on the Italian's head.Ok Taylor's technique wasn't great but for the Italian TMO to keep saying "no mitigating circumstances" was very unfair.I'm not doubting his impartiality but I felt he (TMO) made all the running on this.
I'd be interested to hear what Cockerill has to say but it would be ridiculous if Taylor gets 3/4 week suspension even after discount (ie the same as the Scarlets lock who nearly smashed his head off).So I hope they appeal this one.
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Re: v Zebre 23rd January

Postby robdinsdale on Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:25 pm

liveinhope wrote:I've had a fresh look at the Taylor tackle.If you go through it frame by frame the Italian player definitely ducks very shortly before Taylor makes contact making it well nigh impossible to avoid contact with his shoulder on the Italian's head.Ok Taylor's technique wasn't great but for the Italian TMO to keep saying "no mitigating circumstances" was very unfair.I'm not doubting his impartiality but I felt he (TMO) made all the running on this.
I'd be interested to hear what Cockerill has to say but it would be ridiculous if Taylor gets 3/4 week suspension even after discount (ie the same as the Scarlets lock who nearly smashed his head off).So I hope they appeal this one.


Taylor went in high but I agree the Italian player was crouching - his knees were practically on the ground. TMO also said there was no push on Schoeman before the obstruction penalty.
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Re: v Zebre 23rd January

Postby disco on Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:33 pm

liveinhope wrote:I've had a fresh look at the Taylor tackle.If you go through it frame by frame the Italian player definitely ducks very shortly before Taylor makes contact making it well nigh impossible to avoid contact with his shoulder on the Italian's head.Ok Taylor's technique wasn't great but for the Italian TMO to keep saying "no mitigating circumstances" was very unfair.I'm not doubting his impartiality but I felt he (TMO) made all the running on this.
I'd be interested to hear what Cockerill has to say but it would be ridiculous if Taylor gets 3/4 week suspension even after discount (ie the same as the Scarlets lock who nearly smashed his head off).So I hope they appeal this one.

A mitigating factor would be a sudden drop in height (eg from an earlier tackle, tripping/falling, diving to score). The movements of Rizzi would not in any way constitute a mitigating factor under the high tackle framework. Taylor's way of avoiding contact with the head would have been to lower his body height going into the tackle.

If he accepts the charge he will get a 3 week ban (mid range entry point of 6 weeks less 50% mitigation for clean disciplinary record, admitting guilt and, I'm assuming, good conduct during the hearing). If they try and contest it he risks getting an extra week on his ban because I don't see any grounds to fight what was a correct decision to red card under the high tackle framework (based on the replays we saw).
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Re: v Zebre 23rd January

Postby Tichtheid on Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:22 pm

I haven't re-watched the tackle or the game, but at the time I doubted there was contract between shoulder and "neck area", which is what the TMO was saying. I thought there was a whiplash from the contact, but contact above the shoulder wasn't obvious.

I assume Edinburgh will go through the footage with a fine-toothed combe and if there is contact, no arguments, it was a high tackle and a definite red card. Take the medicine and move on.

If there was no contact I'd expect them to appeal it, but as Disco says you do run the risk of an extended ban.
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