Edinburgh v Scarlets sat 27th 12 noon

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Re: Edinburgh v Scarlets sat 27th 12 noon

Postby Impega on Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:43 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
The Nudger wrote:Just watching Keenan's try for Ireland. When was the last time you saw an Edinburgh back cut an angle like that? Our attacking game plan, if there is one is like something from the 90s and is badly implemented to boot. Complete failure in vouching. Hodge has been in place for six years and there has been no real improvement in that time. How many if our young backs have really improved in that time? How many look well coached? Do we look like we gave any confidence in our attacking gameplan?

Why does Cockerill continue to tolerate his incompetence? Its starting to affect his reputation now too and if Hodge doesn't go over the summer then we know he's got a job for life at the SRU and Cockers isn't in charge of his own team. If I was him
i would walk at that point.


Hodge is neither dictating nor responsible for the attacking gameplan. The incompetence you refer to is not under his remit.


What is his remit then? Obviously Cockerill is in charge of the overall gameplan, but what does Hodge do if not dictate at least part of how we attack? His title is Attack Coach.
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Re: Edinburgh v Scarlets sat 27th 12 noon

Postby BigD163 on Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:44 pm

Tichtheid wrote:
disco wrote:
Tichtheid wrote:Maybe a year in the diddy cup will let us get the young guys up and running.

How many minutes has Chamberlain had?

Shiel has started a couple of times but not many.

Look at the side Glasgow are sending over to Dublin tomorrow, I’ll wager this time next year the likes of Dobie will have started more games than Shiel, if he hasn’t already.

That's the 10th time in a row where Chamberlain has been selected on the bench but ended up as an unused sub. The only game this season where he made it off the bench was for 8 minutes against the Ospreys in the first game. He played all 80 minutes as a starter in each of the 3 games where van der Walt was unavailable during the Autumn.



That is a dreadful state of affairs.


It really is. I posted a while back that it is unfair to give him no game time then throw him in to starts and does nothing for his development. My view remains unchanged. Jaco isn't good enough to deserve 80min every game.
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Re: Edinburgh v Scarlets sat 27th 12 noon

Postby BigD163 on Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:46 pm

The Nudger wrote:Just watching Keenan's try for Ireland. When was the last time you saw an Edinburgh back cut an angle like that? Our attacking game plan, if there is one is like something from the 90s and is badly implemented to boot. Complete failure in vouching. Hodge has been in place for six years and there has been no real improvement in that time. How many if our young backs have really improved in that time? How many look well coached? Do we look like we gave any confidence in our attacking gameplan?

Why does Cockerill continue to tolerate his incompetence? Its starting to affect his reputation now too and if Hodge doesn't go over the summer then we know he's got a job for life at the SRU and Cockers isn't in charge of his own team. If I was him
i would walk at that point.


At this point let's be honest it is the fans that are tolerating RC's incompetence when it comes to the gameplan.

Same direction of travel as his tenure at the Tigers.
Last edited by BigD163 on Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Edinburgh v Scarlets sat 27th 12 noon

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:50 pm

Impega wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
The Nudger wrote:Just watching Keenan's try for Ireland. When was the last time you saw an Edinburgh back cut an angle like that? Our attacking game plan, if there is one is like something from the 90s and is badly implemented to boot. Complete failure in vouching. Hodge has been in place for six years and there has been no real improvement in that time. How many if our young backs have really improved in that time? How many look well coached? Do we look like we gave any confidence in our attacking gameplan?

Why does Cockerill continue to tolerate his incompetence? Its starting to affect his reputation now too and if Hodge doesn't go over the summer then we know he's got a job for life at the SRU and Cockers isn't in charge of his own team. If I was him
i would walk at that point.


Hodge is neither dictating nor responsible for the attacking gameplan. The incompetence you refer to is not under his remit.


What is his remit then? Obviously Cockerill is in charge of the overall gameplan, but what does Hodge do if not dictate at least part of how we attack? His title is Attack Coach.


I don't think he does anything. When he was temporary HC we played far too fast and loose. And now we're a carbon copy of Richard Cockerill's Leicester and Toulon.

It doesn't take a genius to work out who's game we're playing. Maybe a change will be good. But unless that's a change in RCs attitude or the nuclear option of a change in HC it doesn't really matter who is attack coach I don't think.
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Re: Edinburgh v Scarlets sat 27th 12 noon

Postby The Nudger on Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:02 pm

Really? When Hodge left the Scotland role they immediately started scoring more tries and Edinburgh started scoring fewer. No change in Head Coach in either case.
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Re: Edinburgh v Scarlets sat 27th 12 noon

Postby The Nudger on Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:04 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
The Nudger wrote:Just watching Keenan's try for Ireland. When was the last time you saw an Edinburgh back cut an angle like that? Our attacking game plan, if there is one is like something from the 90s and is badly implemented to boot. Complete failure in vouching. Hodge has been in place for six years and there has been no real improvement in that time. How many if our young backs have really improved in that time? How many look well coached? Do we look like we gave any confidence in our attacking gameplan?

Why does Cockerill continue to tolerate his incompetence? Its starting to affect his reputation now too and if Hodge doesn't go over the summer then we know he's got a job for life at the SRU and Cockers isn't in charge of his own team. If I was him
i would walk at that point.


Hodge is neither dictating nor responsible for the attacking gameplan. The incompetence you refer to is not under his remit.


So if the attack coach isn't responsible for attack what is he responsible for?
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Re: Edinburgh v Scarlets sat 27th 12 noon

Postby joe soap on Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:10 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
I don't think he does anything. When he was temporary HC we played far too fast and loose. And now we're a carbon copy of Richard Cockerill's Leicester and Toulon.

It doesn't take a genius to work out who's game we're playing. Maybe a change will be good. But unless that's a change in RCs attitude or the nuclear option of a change in HC it doesn't really matter who is attack coach I don't think.


its fair to say the backs looked clueless. Hodge has to take some responsibility, but if backs are playing defensively even in possession that's a huge problem, and its what is happening to some extent. Don't get caught out of position in case ball is turned over. Kick away good turnover ball the default position. Its a mindset and its coming from the top. Your comment on Toulon not quite right. He stabilised them and moved on. Here he stabilised Edinburgh and .......here we are. Leicester though, well he brought in a backs coach, didnt work out too well. He has had plenty of time to move Hodge on or sideways or just sideline him.
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Re: Edinburgh v Scarlets sat 27th 12 noon

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:17 pm

The Nudger wrote:Really? When Hodge left the Scotland role they immediately started scoring more tries and Edinburgh started scoring fewer. No change in Head Coach in either case.


Correlation isn't causation. When Hodge left Scotland it coincided with the team improving all across the squad with depth and experience.

If you think a new backs coach will change the gameplan from forward dominated to all signing all dancing prime Glasgow Warriors I refer you to Richard Cockerill's Leicester tenure.

Not saying he should stay. But he's not the biggest current problem. We also don't have good backs - VdW is a poor passer, as are all the centres - quite hard for much width when that is the case.
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Re: Edinburgh v Scarlets sat 27th 12 noon

Postby The Feral Goat on Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:33 pm

I don't think the players are as bad as some suggest but the way we play makes them look worse than they are.

No quick ball, no flat ball, no apparent moves called we would be as well having darge, Boyle kunavula etc in the centre.

It looks like it only goes to the backs by accident, it is LawrenceBryce pish. I know this season is disjoinnted and we are missing lots of internationals but we have fallen back badly after making decent progress for a few seasons, granted from a very low start point.

Got to assume coaches see something fundamental in Chamberlains game/development that means he will only play in emergency, but given that is champions Cup gone surely there is an opportunity now for game time and other youngsters.
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Re: Edinburgh v Scarlets sat 27th 12 noon

Postby JDCSR on Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:59 pm

Feels as if one or both of Cockers and Hodge has to go. Credit to Cockers for what he's done but it increasingly looks like we aren't going any further and are slipping backwards. I wonder how many cracks VDM has been papering over too.
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Re: Edinburgh v Scarlets sat 27th 12 noon

Postby The Feral Goat on Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:07 pm

JDCSR wrote:Feels as if one or both of Cockers and Hodge has to go. Credit to Cockers for what he's done but it increasingly looks like we aren't going any further and are slipping backwards. I wonder how many cracks VDM has been papering over too.


I still believe letting matt Scott go was a big mistake, his all round skill set is way ahead of those that remain. Losing VDM next season i can only see a game plan as dull and conservative as present. hope the speed of the new pitch perhaps forces a change in tactic.
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Re: Edinburgh v Scarlets sat 27th 12 noon

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:20 pm

The Feral Goat wrote:
JDCSR wrote:Feels as if one or both of Cockers and Hodge has to go. Credit to Cockers for what he's done but it increasingly looks like we aren't going any further and are slipping backwards. I wonder how many cracks VDM has been papering over too.


I still believe letting matt Scott go was a big mistake, his all round skill set is way ahead of those that remain. Losing VDM next season i can only see a game plan as dull and conservative as present. hope the speed of the new pitch perhaps forces a change in tactic.


The thing is if the forwards get back to where they were pre covid the space will open up as players get sucked in. Forwards are going backwards everygame and the problem starts there.

Need to freshen the backs up. Shiel has to start with Frostwick on the bench now. Let's see what we have! Same with Savala and Chamberlain - I just don't accept van Der Walt is anything but a reasonable game manager. Have some invention with Kinghorn playing as a second receiver.
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Re: Edinburgh v Scarlets sat 27th 12 noon

Postby The Nudger on Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:28 pm

Friday Knight Lights wrote:
The Nudger wrote:Really? When Hodge left the Scotland role they immediately started scoring more tries and Edinburgh started scoring fewer. No change in Head Coach in either case.


Correlation isn't causation. When Hodge left Scotland it coincided with the team improving all across the squad with depth and experience.

If you think a new backs coach will change the gameplan from forward dominated to all signing all dancing prime Glasgow Warriors I refer you to Richard Cockerill's Leicester tenure.

Not saying he should stay. But he's not the biggest current problem. We also don't have good backs - VdW is a poor passer, as are all the centres - quite hard for much width when that is the case.


Same 2 sets of players, same head coaches but in both cases that group of players score fewer tries with Hodge as their attack coach than with another. Surely that is correlation!

Particularly damning when one of those attack coaches is Alan Solomons!

I'm not saying that we need to go full Glasgow Warriors but I am saying that no matter how conservative our game plan when we do attack it should be incisive, well drilled and accurate. Most of the time we look completely clueless and lethargic attack, contrast with the defence which even when it goes wrong still looks energetic and structured.
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Re: Edinburgh v Scarlets sat 27th 12 noon

Postby The Nudger on Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:36 pm

Also, playing a forward dominated gameplan does not preclude good attacking play. Look at the great Munster sides from the ROG era, they played pretty dour rugby most of the time but by god they were ruthless when it came to turning pressure into points!
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Re: Edinburgh v Scarlets sat 27th 12 noon

Postby JDCSR on Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:23 pm

We've 16 full internationals in our pack with Crosbie and Schoeman likely to join them at some point.

And we've just 8 internationals in the backs.

Those are just numbers but our squad feels very unbalanced to me. We can put out any number of reasonably potent combinations up front and we have a good back 3 when Kinghorn, Graham and VDM are available but there is no combination (Bennett excepted) in the half backs or centres that gives me any confidence. None of them are bad players in there but the 9-10-12 axis is all to often solid but too limited, too average.

Our gameplan in the backs seems to be to try and mitigate these weaknesses by asking the 9 to endlessly box kick and let our wingers chase it. Perhaps the acquisition of Lang is a sign that this weakness is being addressed.
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