Edinburgh v Benetton

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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton

Postby Friday Knight Lights on Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:51 pm

malkster1 wrote:
Friday Knight Lights wrote:
Tichtheid wrote:Kinghorn is 24 year old, the club's youngest ever centurion and he has 25 full international caps.

I'm not going to write him off just yet, not after being in a backline whose attacking guile amounted to "gie it tae Duhan".


He's a centurion because when he was 18/19 he was 18 one of the best fullbacks and attacking players in the league. Maybe it is coaching but that is no longer even close to being true.



He maybe has not developed as well as we would have liked but to suggest Hoyland is a better option at FB is nonsense.


Why? When was the last time Kinghorn had a good game for Edinburgh? Hoyland puts in a 7/10 every week. Last year at full back he was solid making his tackles, positionally right, made his kicks and rarely made an error. For a long time Kinghorn has been living on his reputation.

He's like Huw Jones - Glasgow moved him to fullback because they had better performing players at 13. You don't move one of your top earners and best players to an experimental positions unless they aren't doing what you pay them to do.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton

Postby Tichtheid on Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:56 pm

Gregor Townsend seems to think otherwise, Kinghorn was in last year’s Autumn Internationals squad, this year’s 6N squad and as already discussed would have been the first choice fullback this summer.


edit, I’ve just had a look at the squads for each game in this year’s 6N, it looks like Hogg and vdM are nailed on starters, the third back three first choice would appear to be Maitland then Graham, which I wouldn’t argue with too much.
Huw Jones was the utility player on the bench and he does offer more options than Kinghorn
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton

Postby dolf_lundgren on Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:01 am

Sadly I missed the game on Sat but sounds like a good performance, always hard to judge the wuality of opposition in pre season but a good hit out.

I think some of the criticism of Kinghorn is quite harsh, its not uncommon for players who emerge quite young to then have a dip in form, Bennet (although injured), even Hogg are examples. He is still quite young by pro standards.

I dont think it is fair to say he hasnt improved his game, the flashy stuff line breaks etc he was always good at, what he has improved is his positioning and under the high ball, where he did have a weakness. I think he is currently still our best full back. Whether Boffelli or Immelman change that is still to be seen.

it does look like moving him back to 10 was planned though, we have signed significant resouces in the back 3 and not at 10, he was played there by Cockers and now by Blair, I dont think it can all be at the behest of Townsend. Maybe there isnt a conspiracy and they just think he is good there. Plenty to work on from him, but he is a very talented player.

Its a pretty Scottish trait to try and talk down our players, if he was English or Irish they woudl have been campaigning for him to be a Lion! He missed a chink of the 6n with wrist injury, whether he would have played more we will never know but he hs always done well for Scotland and ha sa decent strike rate. In terms of pecking order he is in or around the 23, Hogg, Duhan, Maitland and Graham are there too and we are yet to see where Jones will fit in. He is ata different level from Hoyland and Steyn, both good players but I dont think they are anywhere near Kinghorn.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton

Postby joe soap on Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:19 pm

dolf_lundgren wrote:Sadly I missed the game on Sat but sounds like a good performance, always hard to judge the wuality of opposition in pre season but a good hit out.

I think some of the criticism of Kinghorn is quite harsh, its not uncommon for players who emerge quite young to then have a dip in form, Bennet (although injured), even Hogg are examples. He is still quite young by pro standards.

I dont think it is fair to say he hasnt improved his game, the flashy stuff line breaks etc he was always good at, what he has improved is his positioning and under the high ball, where he did have a weakness. I think he is currently still our best full back. Whether Boffelli or Immelman change that is still to be seen.

it does look like moving him back to 10 was planned though, we have signed significant resouces in the back 3 and not at 10, he was played there by Cockers and now by Blair, I dont think it can all be at the behest of Townsend. Maybe there isnt a conspiracy and they just think he is good there. Plenty to work on from him, but he is a very talented player.

Its a pretty Scottish trait to try and talk down our players, if he was English or Irish they woudl have been campaigning for him to be a Lion! He missed a chink of the 6n with wrist injury, whether he would have played more we will never know but he hs always done well for Scotland and ha sa decent strike rate. In terms of pecking order he is in or around the 23, Hogg, Duhan, Maitland and Graham are there too and we are yet to see where Jones will fit in. He is ata different level from Hoyland and Steyn, both good players but I dont think they are anywhere near Kinghorn.


fans from everywhere run down players they don't like, but although I don't think Kinghorn has developed as everyone hoped (and I think still has positional and focus issues) I agree some of the stuff on here is OTT.
Playing in the Cockerill system helped no one, and having to do that from age 20 to 24 - well, its no surprise. I would like to see him being able to focus on one position and make it his. I'm not bothered which, but I doubt it should be 10. He has every chance now to play in a better environment in a better structure, up to him now
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton

Postby robdinsdale on Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:12 am

joe soap wrote:
dolf_lundgren wrote:Sadly I missed the game on Sat but sounds like a good performance, always hard to judge the wuality of opposition in pre season but a good hit out.

I think some of the criticism of Kinghorn is quite harsh, its not uncommon for players who emerge quite young to then have a dip in form, Bennet (although injured), even Hogg are examples. He is still quite young by pro standards.

I dont think it is fair to say he hasnt improved his game, the flashy stuff line breaks etc he was always good at, what he has improved is his positioning and under the high ball, where he did have a weakness. I think he is currently still our best full back. Whether Boffelli or Immelman change that is still to be seen.

it does look like moving him back to 10 was planned though, we have signed significant resouces in the back 3 and not at 10, he was played there by Cockers and now by Blair, I dont think it can all be at the behest of Townsend. Maybe there isnt a conspiracy and they just think he is good there. Plenty to work on from him, but he is a very talented player.

Its a pretty Scottish trait to try and talk down our players, if he was English or Irish they woudl have been campaigning for him to be a Lion! He missed a chink of the 6n with wrist injury, whether he would have played more we will never know but he hs always done well for Scotland and ha sa decent strike rate. In terms of pecking order he is in or around the 23, Hogg, Duhan, Maitland and Graham are there too and we are yet to see where Jones will fit in. He is ata different level from Hoyland and Steyn, both good players but I dont think they are anywhere near Kinghorn.


fans from everywhere run down players they don't like, but although I don't think Kinghorn has developed as everyone hoped (and I think still has positional and focus issues) I agree some of the stuff on here is OTT.
Playing in the Cockerill system helped no one, and having to do that from age 20 to 24 - well, its no surprise. I would like to see him being able to focus on one position and make it his. I'm not bothered which, but I doubt it should be 10. He has every chance now to play in a better environment in a better structure, up to him now


Mikey Blair is in the Scotsman bigging up Kinghorn's ability to play 10 and saying that he will improve with gametime. Sounds like BK is happy to give it a crack but thinks he is more likely to pick up Scotland caps in the back 3.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-un ... in-3394359
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton

Postby Tichtheid on Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:03 am

robdinsdale wrote:
Mikey Blair is in the Scotsman bigging up Kinghorn's ability to play 10 and saying that he will improve with gametime. Sounds like BK is happy to give it a crack but thinks he is more likely to pick up Scotland caps in the back 3.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-un ... in-3394359



Interesting stuff. I thought MB's comment about Blair being able to see space from 10 is a very telling one, these guys are solid gold.

If he does make a go of it at ten then he needs to push ahead of his mate Adam Hastings to get into the national squad. Hasting has benched for Gloucester behind 25 year old Lloyd Evans last week and this, but to be honest it would be a bit of a rugby miracle if Kinghorn could step up to international grade at fly half this season.

Allowing for a flight of fancy - supposing he makes the grade for the 2023 6N, he'll have only just turned 26 at that point, but there is no reason to think he wouldn't be in the mix for the wing and fullback cover before then, if he is playing well.
The Aussies at their most successful had no problem with playing their backs all over the shop.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton

Postby Frenchy on Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:10 pm

Tichtheid wrote:
robdinsdale wrote:
Mikey Blair is in the Scotsman bigging up Kinghorn's ability to play 10 and saying that he will improve with gametime. Sounds like BK is happy to give it a crack but thinks he is more likely to pick up Scotland caps in the back 3.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-un ... in-3394359



Interesting stuff. I thought MB's comment about Blair being able to see space from 10 is a very telling one, these guys are solid gold.


Took me an embarrassing amount of time to parse this!
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton

Postby joe soap on Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:19 am

Tichtheid wrote:
robdinsdale wrote:
Mikey Blair is in the Scotsman bigging up Kinghorn's ability to play 10 and saying that he will improve with gametime. Sounds like BK is happy to give it a crack but thinks he is more likely to pick up Scotland caps in the back 3.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-un ... in-3394359



Interesting stuff. I thought MB's comment about Blair being able to see space from 10 is a very telling one, these guys are solid gold.

If he does make a go of it at ten then he needs to push ahead of his mate Adam Hastings to get into the national squad. Hasting has benched for Gloucester behind 25 year old Lloyd Evans last week and this, but to be honest it would be a bit of a rugby miracle if Kinghorn could step up to international grade at fly half this season.




Hasting apparently joined up with Gloucs late and his pre season curtailed, so not quite there - Evans stepped up last season to fill the gap Cipriani left when he left mid season and did pretty well.
Expect Hastings will be taking top slot shortly.
Kinghorn has a loooooooooong way to go to displace Hastings. First he need to be given a chance to nail the edin slot, if its a serious move then as has been said I think, a game or two doesn't do, however well or badly it goes. Gain or pain, need to be stuck with. I have my doubts, but down to Blair and Kinghorn to make the case now
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton

Postby joe soap on Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:20 am

just to add I hope Immelman is as good as many seem to think. Not seen it myself, but again new player in new club, might be a better player here than for the mess that has been Montpellier
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton

Postby Tichtheid on Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:27 am

joe soap wrote:
Tichtheid wrote:
robdinsdale wrote:
Mikey Blair is in the Scotsman bigging up Kinghorn's ability to play 10 and saying that he will improve with gametime. Sounds like BK is happy to give it a crack but thinks he is more likely to pick up Scotland caps in the back 3.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-un ... in-3394359



Interesting stuff. I thought MB's comment about Blair being able to see space from 10 is a very telling one, these guys are solid gold.

If he does make a go of it at ten then he needs to push ahead of his mate Adam Hastings to get into the national squad. Hasting has benched for Gloucester behind 25 year old Lloyd Evans last week and this, but to be honest it would be a bit of a rugby miracle if Kinghorn could step up to international grade at fly half this season.




Hasting apparently joined up with Gloucs late and his pre season curtailed, so not quite there - Evans stepped up last season to fill the gap Cipriani left when he left mid season and did pretty well.
Expect Hastings will be taking top slot shortly.
Kinghorn has a loooooooooong way to go to displace Hastings. First he need to be given a chance to nail the edin slot, if its a serious move then as has been said I think, a game or two doesn't do, however well or badly it goes. Gain or pain, need to be stuck with. I have my doubts, but down to Blair and Kinghorn to make the case now



oh it's not going to happen overnight, no chance. He's going to have some howlers, for sure, but if they are serious about the move he needs to get the whole season, unless it becomes very obvious that it's just a bad idea, in which case move him back to 15.

Best case scenario is that he makes the jersey his own, so much so that he might get some minutes in a Scotland shirt next summer at fly half and perhaps start pushing Hastings next season.

I think he has the ability, if he has the application and the drive then it's possibly a very good move for Edinburgh and for Scotland.
In the meantime there's nothing written down to say he can't cover back three for Scotland.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton

Postby zt1903 on Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:41 am

Tichtheid wrote:oh it's not going to happen overnight, no chance. He's going to have some howlers, for sure, but if they are serious about the move he needs to get the whole season, unless it becomes very obvious that it's just a bad idea, in which case move him back to 15.

Best case scenario is that he makes the jersey his own, so much so that he might get some minutes in a Scotland shirt next summer at fly half and perhaps start pushing Hastings next season.

I think he has the ability, if he has the application and the drive then it's possibly a very good move for Edinburgh and for Scotland.
In the meantime there's nothing written down to say he can't cover back three for Scotland.


Pushing Hastings for the role of backup stand-off, right?

I’m still expecting Russell to own that starting shirt for a while yet.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton

Postby Tichtheid on Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:52 am

zt1903 wrote:
Tichtheid wrote:oh it's not going to happen overnight, no chance. He's going to have some howlers, for sure, but if they are serious about the move he needs to get the whole season, unless it becomes very obvious that it's just a bad idea, in which case move him back to 15.

Best case scenario is that he makes the jersey his own, so much so that he might get some minutes in a Scotland shirt next summer at fly half and perhaps start pushing Hastings next season.

I think he has the ability, if he has the application and the drive then it's possibly a very good move for Edinburgh and for Scotland.
In the meantime there's nothing written down to say he can't cover back three for Scotland.


Pushing Hastings for the role of backup stand-off, right?

I’m still expecting Russell to own that starting shirt for a while yet.



Aye, exactly that.
Finn is exceptional, if he wore a black jersey with a fern on it the whole rugby world would be fawning all over him.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton

Postby liveinhope on Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:01 am

It should not be forgotten amongst all the hype that (unless I am mistaken) Cockerill rather than Blair was responsible for signing Vellacott,Lang and Immelmann so hats off to him for that.
( I think Boffelli and Moyano may have been signed under Blair's watch?)
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton

Postby Weegie on Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:08 pm

liveinhope wrote:It should not be forgotten amongst all the hype that (unless I am mistaken) Cockerill rather than Blair was responsible for signing Vellacott,Lang and Immelmann so hats off to him for that.
( I think Boffelli and Moyano may have been signed under Blair's watch?)


Most people associated with Edinburgh are very clear that Cockerill was what was needed when he came in. He really made a difference and laid the foundations. But then a point arrived when the previous methods would no longer deliver further improvements, and that is when it all went wrong as he did not make those changes.
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Re: Edinburgh v Benetton

Postby The Feral Goat on Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:34 pm

Weegie wrote:
liveinhope wrote:It should not be forgotten amongst all the hype that (unless I am mistaken) Cockerill rather than Blair was responsible for signing Vellacott,Lang and Immelmann so hats off to him for that.
( I think Boffelli and Moyano may have been signed under Blair's watch?)


Most people associated with Edinburgh are very clear that Cockerill was what was needed when he came in. He really made a difference and laid the foundations. But then a point arrived when the previous methods would no longer deliver further improvements, and that is when it all went wrong as he did not make those changes.


You have to wonder if Vellacott would be playing in the same way under Cockerill surely not. Immelman not flash but looks an intelligent player who will rarely make a mistake perhaps security at 15 Kinghorn never quite brought.

Would we have gone wide off the ruck for bennetts score under cockerill or would it have been kept in the forwards for another 18 phases.

Will never know, but i doubt we would be playing the rugby we saw last night without the foundations Cockerill built.
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